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You can argue all you want, but I understand how cost of living works plenty well. SV is expensive but not so expensive that it wipes out $200k in income. If yo

You can argue all you want, but I understand how cost of living works plenty well. SV is expensive but not so expensive that it wipes out $200k in income. If you're careful about expenses you can easily put away tens of thousands annually. This is backed up by own personal experience as a developer in NYC (hardly a low cost area). I expect to have a million dollars saved up within a decade and I certainly haven't relied on political panache to get there.

dvt 10y ago
Sorry for seeming incredulous, but if you're saying that you're saving 100k a year in NYC, then you must be making like 400k or living in a cardboard box. Even with a 300k salary, you could only save 10k a month if you only had 5k worth of monthly expenses (3-4k is easily rent in NYC). And keep in mind that making 300k-400k is not typical.
- morgante 10y ago
  I make substantially less than 400k and I assure you that I do not live in a cardboard box. $5k is high for monthly expenses. I rented a single bedroom in Manhattan for $1850 and you can save even more if you're willing to live with roommates. I'm not sure what I can do to convince you I'm not lying, but consider that median household income is less than $100k in both SV and NY. If the average person can get by on <$100k, why wouldn't you be able to save tons of money if you're making $200k? I have friends getting by on $40k in NYC. Can you imagine how easy it is to save if you match your lifestyle to theirs? Of course, it's not going to buy you a luxury lifestyle. But personally I'd rather maintain a high savings rate than live in a glitzy apartment and spend thousands on bottle service.
  - dvt 10y ago
    Ok, so maybe I'm just bad at math. I know that if you make 200k as an engineer in NYC (which is STILL high[1]), you make around 10k a month after taxes. 10k - 2k for rent - 1k for expenses = 7k saved if you don't go on vacation, and literally do nothing that costs money for ten years. Even saving 7k a month, you won't save 100k a year. [1] https://www.glassdoor.com/Salaries/new-york-city-software-engineer-salary-SRCH_IL.0,13_IM615_KO14,31.htm https://www.glassdoor.com/Salaries/new-york-city-software-en...
    - morgante 10y ago
      7k is about right. My average savings rate over the past 3 years has been $6k and it's increased as my salary has. You're forgetting to include investment gains. With them, I can go on regular vacations and still reach $1m within 10 years. Also, since someone else mentioned it, my model conservatively assumes a 4% inflation rate. Over the 3 years I've been tracking, my model has consistently underestimated the growth in my savings.
    - riboflava 10y ago
      $1k for other 'expenses' is huge. You can drive that down at least by half with wiser spending.
      - foldr 10y ago
        It's not huge. That's bills together with all of your everyday spending. It's certainly possible to get that down to less than $1000 a month but you can easily spend $1000 a month without doing anything extravagant.
      - dvt 10y ago
        Food, insurance, gas, water, electricity, student debt, etc. At least by half? Come on. Let's be real.
      - eru 10y ago
        You might want to save, but there's no need to be a total miser on any >100k salary.
    - mercutio2 10y ago
      You are exaggerating NYC income taxes. At $200k, your effective income tax rate if you file single, including FICA, is 33%, not 40% [0]. Heck, your marginal tax rate isn't even 40%, and all those numbers are without taking a 401k tax deduction. People get this crazy idea that $200k isn't rich in NYC or SF. It is very, very rich, even for the area. COL adjustment for rent and groceries shaves off $15-30k, but it doesn't keep scaling up from there. [0] https://smartasset.com/taxes/new-york-tax-calculator https://smartasset.com/taxes/new-york-tax-calculator
- hx87 10y ago
  > 3-4k is easily rent in NYC Only if you insist on living by yourself, or renting a luxury apartment with your friends/family in Manhattan. Going under $2k a month is easily possible if you have a large, multiple earner family or roommates, especially if you live outside Manhattan/Brooklyn. Plenty of New Yorkers manage with incomes less than $60k, and if you can live like them, saving 10k a month on a $300,000 salary is easy. There is nothing requiring you to spend a certain amount of money just because you are earning a certain amount of money. We don't have sumptuary laws, after all.
chronic81 10y ago
> I expect to have a million dollars saved up within a decade and I certainly haven't relied on political panache to get there. In 10 years, your "million" will be worth 800K now. Not everyone wants to sit around for decades to become a millionaire.

dvt 10y ago

Sorry for seeming incredulous, but if you're saying that you're saving 100k a year in NYC, then you must be making like 400k or living in a cardboard box. Even with a 300k salary, you could only save 10k a month if you only had 5k worth of monthly expenses (3-4k is easily rent in NYC). And keep in mind that making 300k-400k is not typical.

morgante 10y ago
I make substantially less than 400k and I assure you that I do not live in a cardboard box. $5k is high for monthly expenses. I rented a single bedroom in Manhattan for $1850 and you can save even more if you're willing to live with roommates. I'm not sure what I can do to convince you I'm not lying, but consider that median household income is less than $100k in both SV and NY. If the average person can get by on <$100k, why wouldn't you be able to save tons of money if you're making $200k? I have friends getting by on $40k in NYC. Can you imagine how easy it is to save if you match your lifestyle to theirs? Of course, it's not going to buy you a luxury lifestyle. But personally I'd rather maintain a high savings rate than live in a glitzy apartment and spend thousands on bottle service.
- dvt 10y ago
  Ok, so maybe I'm just bad at math. I know that if you make 200k as an engineer in NYC (which is STILL high[1]), you make around 10k a month after taxes. 10k - 2k for rent - 1k for expenses = 7k saved if you don't go on vacation, and literally do nothing that costs money for ten years. Even saving 7k a month, you won't save 100k a year. [1] https://www.glassdoor.com/Salaries/new-york-city-software-engineer-salary-SRCH_IL.0,13_IM615_KO14,31.htm https://www.glassdoor.com/Salaries/new-york-city-software-en...
  - morgante 10y ago
    7k is about right. My average savings rate over the past 3 years has been $6k and it's increased as my salary has. You're forgetting to include investment gains. With them, I can go on regular vacations and still reach $1m within 10 years. Also, since someone else mentioned it, my model conservatively assumes a 4% inflation rate. Over the 3 years I've been tracking, my model has consistently underestimated the growth in my savings.
  - riboflava 10y ago
    $1k for other 'expenses' is huge. You can drive that down at least by half with wiser spending.
    - foldr 10y ago
      It's not huge. That's bills together with all of your everyday spending. It's certainly possible to get that down to less than $1000 a month but you can easily spend $1000 a month without doing anything extravagant.
    - dvt 10y ago
      Food, insurance, gas, water, electricity, student debt, etc. At least by half? Come on. Let's be real.
    - eru 10y ago
      You might want to save, but there's no need to be a total miser on any >100k salary.
  - mercutio2 10y ago
    You are exaggerating NYC income taxes. At $200k, your effective income tax rate if you file single, including FICA, is 33%, not 40% [0]. Heck, your marginal tax rate isn't even 40%, and all those numbers are without taking a 401k tax deduction. People get this crazy idea that $200k isn't rich in NYC or SF. It is very, very rich, even for the area. COL adjustment for rent and groceries shaves off $15-30k, but it doesn't keep scaling up from there. [0] https://smartasset.com/taxes/new-york-tax-calculator https://smartasset.com/taxes/new-york-tax-calculator
hx87 10y ago
> 3-4k is easily rent in NYC Only if you insist on living by yourself, or renting a luxury apartment with your friends/family in Manhattan. Going under $2k a month is easily possible if you have a large, multiple earner family or roommates, especially if you live outside Manhattan/Brooklyn. Plenty of New Yorkers manage with incomes less than $60k, and if you can live like them, saving 10k a month on a $300,000 salary is easy. There is nothing requiring you to spend a certain amount of money just because you are earning a certain amount of money. We don't have sumptuary laws, after all.

chronic81 10y ago

> I expect to have a million dollars saved up within a decade and I certainly haven't relied on political panache to get there. In 10 years, your "million" will be worth 800K now. Not everyone wants to sit around for decades to become a millionaire.