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I think Tesla should be forced to hand over all the log-data rather than pick-and-choose kind of log-data in order to not taking responsibility of an accident.

jmcdiesel 10y ago
Why? Does Dodge, ford, chevy, mercedes, etc... have any obligation to step into every crash and turn over all kinds of data? Tesla looks into more crashes than they should, and in turn are being treated more in the wrong for simply looking into it... they do better than any other car company, yet are basically punished for it by groups of people for simply looking into wrecks to see IF there is something there they could do better...
- pwinnski 10y ago
  Dodge, Ford, Chevy, Mercedes, etc do not collect nor publicly release data at all, while Tesla does. Because Tesla collects and publicly releases data at their own choosing, they have an obvious motivation to release only data that supports limited liability against them. They might not be doing that, but until and unless they make all data available every time they make any data available, it's a matter of faith.
  - jmcdiesel 10y ago
    Yeah... then what? Police say "oh, you were doing 75mph in a 50? ticket!"... insurance rate hike, etc... how much liability would they be picking up if they exposed all of that, and how quickly would people be throwing a fit about privacy? I know multiple people (in multiple states) who have been ticketed based on their youtube videos... im sure police would try to use the logs just the same...
    - pwinnski 10y ago
      Let's recap this thread: 1. gordon_freeman suggests that Tesla should be forced to disclose what they have, rather than pick and choose what to share. 2. You said that (a) other companies don't do that, and suggested (b) Tesla is being treated unfairly as a result of doing more than any of those companies. 3. I highlighted that, as I believe gordon_freeman was saying, the difference is that Tesla is already collecting that information and using it very selectively, putting them in a class of one. If they were to keep all of the data to themselves, that would be fine, or if they were to release it all, that would be fine, but as it is, nobody really has any reason to believe them. And now here we are. I'm not sure why you're jumping to liability questions about logs of speeding and bringing up privacy (amusing, that one, when it comes to Tesla's public descriptions of events in their cars). I think the point is clear. Tesla, either provide evidence for your claims, or stop making claims. Simple.
freerobby 10y ago
Roadster owners can download raw logs straight from their cars.[1] For Model S/X, you need a proprietary device to connect to the car's ethernet port (it may be possible to build your own -- not sure if they are encrypted), or you need Tesla to download them and hand them over. Tesla has told me that they will only release logs when ordered to do so by a court, but that they will download and hold them locally upon an owner's request, so that if you think you will have a legal need for them you have time to make that request before they get pruned/deleted by the car. [1] https://upload.teslamotors.com/ https://upload.teslamotors.com/ edit: Differentiated between Roadster and Model S/X policies.

jmcdiesel 10y ago

Why? Does Dodge, ford, chevy, mercedes, etc... have any obligation to step into every crash and turn over all kinds of data? Tesla looks into more crashes than they should, and in turn are being treated more in the wrong for simply looking into it... they do better than any other car company, yet are basically punished for it by groups of people for simply looking into wrecks to see IF there is something there they could do better...

pwinnski 10y ago
Dodge, Ford, Chevy, Mercedes, etc do not collect nor publicly release data at all, while Tesla does. Because Tesla collects and publicly releases data at their own choosing, they have an obvious motivation to release only data that supports limited liability against them. They might not be doing that, but until and unless they make all data available every time they make any data available, it's a matter of faith.
- jmcdiesel 10y ago
  Yeah... then what? Police say "oh, you were doing 75mph in a 50? ticket!"... insurance rate hike, etc... how much liability would they be picking up if they exposed all of that, and how quickly would people be throwing a fit about privacy? I know multiple people (in multiple states) who have been ticketed based on their youtube videos... im sure police would try to use the logs just the same...
  - pwinnski 10y ago
    Let's recap this thread: 1. gordon_freeman suggests that Tesla should be forced to disclose what they have, rather than pick and choose what to share. 2. You said that (a) other companies don't do that, and suggested (b) Tesla is being treated unfairly as a result of doing more than any of those companies. 3. I highlighted that, as I believe gordon_freeman was saying, the difference is that Tesla is already collecting that information and using it very selectively, putting them in a class of one. If they were to keep all of the data to themselves, that would be fine, or if they were to release it all, that would be fine, but as it is, nobody really has any reason to believe them. And now here we are. I'm not sure why you're jumping to liability questions about logs of speeding and bringing up privacy (amusing, that one, when it comes to Tesla's public descriptions of events in their cars). I think the point is clear. Tesla, either provide evidence for your claims, or stop making claims. Simple.

freerobby 10y ago

Roadster owners can download raw logs straight from their cars.[1] For Model S/X, you need a proprietary device to connect to the car's ethernet port (it may be possible to build your own -- not sure if they are encrypted), or you need Tesla to download them and hand them over. Tesla has told me that they will only release logs when ordered to do so by a court, but that they will download and hold them locally upon an owner's request, so that if you think you will have a legal need for them you have time to make that request before they get pruned/deleted by the car. [1] https://upload.teslamotors.com/ https://upload.teslamotors.com/ edit: Differentiated between Roadster and Model S/X policies.