4 ms·

They are forcing countries to extradite accused citizens while refusing to do the same. They have gitmo. They're asking companies like MSFT to collect data that

They are forcing countries to extradite accused citizens while refusing to do the same. They have gitmo. They're asking companies like MSFT to collect data that even MSFT is not legally allowed to do. So, yeah, they're more 'covert' than others, but not necessarily more benevolent.

rrggrr 10y ago
As I said, I'd like you to live in a world without US humanitarian and foreign aid for awhile. A world where the USGOV doesn't project its power in all the places that offend you. I give it four to six weeks before the world devolves into a nasty, brutish chaos.
- funkysquid 10y ago
  I'm not sure gitmo qualifies as humanitarian aid.
- finid 10y ago
  Dude, without the USA, the world will do just fine. Sure, there will still be wars, but when are men not fighting over one thing or the other? Have you asked the people of Libya, Iraq and Syria what their world would be like without the USA?
  - BookmarkSaver 10y ago
    >Dude, without the USA, the world will do just fine. Sure, there will still be wars, but when are men not fighting over one thing or the other? Bullshit defense. There has never been a period in history with fewer wars and proportionally lower fatality rates due to violence. The existence of war at all does not somehow invalidate the value of American hegemony.
    - finid 10y ago
      > There has never been a period in history with fewer wars and proportionally lower fatality rates due to violence. How long is your time frame? Many more people have died after Sep. 2001 than in the decades prior. > The existence of war at all does not somehow invalidate the value of American hegemony. What you seem to forget or don't realize is that the wars of the last decade are a direct result of what we're doing to maintain that American hegemony. So while it's been good for you because you're watching the wars on TV and reading it on the Internet, it's been very bad for those on whose land the wars are being fought.
      - nl 10y ago
        How long is your time frame? Many more people have died after Sep. 2001 than in the decades prior. That just isn't true at all[1]. Since the end of the Second Congo War[3] (in 2003) there hasn't been a conflict that's come close to 1MM causalities. While the Iraq, Afghan and Syrian wars have been brutal and very well publicised they haven't been anywhere near as severe in terms of causalities. (Don't take this as a comment either way on US policies though) [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:List_of_wars_by_death_toll.jpg https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:List_of_wars_by_death_tol... [2] http://www.smithsonianmag.com/smart-news/globally-deaths-war-and-murder-are-decline-180950237/?no-ist http://www.smithsonianmag.com/smart-news/globally-deaths-war... [3] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Second_Congo_War https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Second_Congo_War
- ap22213 10y ago
  As an American, I fantasize about the day when our 325 million no longer try to manage the other 7 billion. But, yet I worry that when that day comes, the ideas of American liberalism will be long gone. The US has big issues and internal ideological conflicts and many inconsistencies, for sure. But, if you randomly sample the population you'll find that most of us want peace, freedom, success and happiness for everyone.
  - wil421 10y ago
    Why do you say the 325 million? American citizens != American government. Most people I talk to don't like what the government is doing.
    - fit2rule 10y ago
      The American government gets its powers from its citizens, so yes, actually, American citizens == American government. Americans are responsible for the acts of their government: Period. Whether you like it or not.
  - ionised 10y ago
    > if you randomly sample the population you'll find that most of us want peace, freedom, success and happiness for everyone. It's a shame that doesn't come across in US foreign and economic policies.
- sangnoir 10y ago
  > A world where the USGOV doesn't project its power in all the places that offend you. I give it four to six weeks before the world devolves into a nasty, brutish chaos. Once upon a time, the British Empire took it upon itself to civilize the uncivilized world, bringing heavy-handed order in many faraway 'nasty, brutish' places for queen and country. The sun has since set on the British Empire, and yet the world is doing just fine. Empires rise and they fall all the time.
  - _ao789 10y ago
    As will many more

rrggrr 10y ago

As I said, I'd like you to live in a world without US humanitarian and foreign aid for awhile. A world where the USGOV doesn't project its power in all the places that offend you. I give it four to six weeks before the world devolves into a nasty, brutish chaos.

funkysquid 10y ago
I'm not sure gitmo qualifies as humanitarian aid.
finid 10y ago
Dude, without the USA, the world will do just fine. Sure, there will still be wars, but when are men not fighting over one thing or the other? Have you asked the people of Libya, Iraq and Syria what their world would be like without the USA?
- BookmarkSaver 10y ago
  >Dude, without the USA, the world will do just fine. Sure, there will still be wars, but when are men not fighting over one thing or the other? Bullshit defense. There has never been a period in history with fewer wars and proportionally lower fatality rates due to violence. The existence of war at all does not somehow invalidate the value of American hegemony.
  - finid 10y ago
    > There has never been a period in history with fewer wars and proportionally lower fatality rates due to violence. How long is your time frame? Many more people have died after Sep. 2001 than in the decades prior. > The existence of war at all does not somehow invalidate the value of American hegemony. What you seem to forget or don't realize is that the wars of the last decade are a direct result of what we're doing to maintain that American hegemony. So while it's been good for you because you're watching the wars on TV and reading it on the Internet, it's been very bad for those on whose land the wars are being fought.
    - nl 10y ago
      How long is your time frame? Many more people have died after Sep. 2001 than in the decades prior. That just isn't true at all[1]. Since the end of the Second Congo War[3] (in 2003) there hasn't been a conflict that's come close to 1MM causalities. While the Iraq, Afghan and Syrian wars have been brutal and very well publicised they haven't been anywhere near as severe in terms of causalities. (Don't take this as a comment either way on US policies though) [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:List_of_wars_by_death_toll.jpg https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:List_of_wars_by_death_tol... [2] http://www.smithsonianmag.com/smart-news/globally-deaths-war-and-murder-are-decline-180950237/?no-ist http://www.smithsonianmag.com/smart-news/globally-deaths-war... [3] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Second_Congo_War https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Second_Congo_War
ap22213 10y ago
As an American, I fantasize about the day when our 325 million no longer try to manage the other 7 billion. But, yet I worry that when that day comes, the ideas of American liberalism will be long gone. The US has big issues and internal ideological conflicts and many inconsistencies, for sure. But, if you randomly sample the population you'll find that most of us want peace, freedom, success and happiness for everyone.
- wil421 10y ago
  Why do you say the 325 million? American citizens != American government. Most people I talk to don't like what the government is doing.
  - fit2rule 10y ago
    The American government gets its powers from its citizens, so yes, actually, American citizens == American government. Americans are responsible for the acts of their government: Period. Whether you like it or not.
- ionised 10y ago
  > if you randomly sample the population you'll find that most of us want peace, freedom, success and happiness for everyone. It's a shame that doesn't come across in US foreign and economic policies.
sangnoir 10y ago
> A world where the USGOV doesn't project its power in all the places that offend you. I give it four to six weeks before the world devolves into a nasty, brutish chaos. Once upon a time, the British Empire took it upon itself to civilize the uncivilized world, bringing heavy-handed order in many faraway 'nasty, brutish' places for queen and country. The sun has since set on the British Empire, and yet the world is doing just fine. Empires rise and they fall all the time.
- _ao789 10y ago
  As will many more