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So how does this work? Do we trust the car or the man? If the car does not detect any steering input, even though it has been given (due to bad software or har

So how does this work? Do we trust the car or the man? If the car does not detect any steering input, even though it has been given (due to bad software or hardware), or logs a warning being sounded, even though none manifested in the real world, what do we do? How do we know? Bugs are by definition human assertions of computer failure, the computers can't lie (yet), but they can be wrong. Are inward-facing dash-cams going to be required so that we have evidience of compliance with the terms of service of our vehicles? I think it is rather unlikely that a false steering input detection, a false warning log, and a false door-opening log all happpend at once...perhpas not in thic case, but subtle, cascading bugs can and do happen.

Alupis 10y ago
> So how does this work? Do we trust the car or the man? Well, until there is a free tool to dump the logs from all of the Tesla cars, and Tesla the company starts releasing the raw data for the public to verify, the more appropriate question is: Do we trust the man or the company? Telsa has a _lot_ to lose, so the temptation to cherry pick data points that tell their desired narrative is fairly strong.
jmcdiesel 10y ago
I'd say trust the car... It would be easy to correlate one sensor failure and one part of the crash (detected hands on the wheels, kept it going int autopilot - because the sensor failure would lead to the crash) But to say that sensors failed, then warning sounds failed, then failsafes failed, becomes rather unbelievable. Also the high drama content of the customer's letter (there is no 50 foot drop off, i just checked on streetview for that entire section of route 2). There is a railroad, then a river, but not a steep drop. Even then, railroads pretty much stop cars dead trying to cross them (dont ask how i know, lets just say a 1986 ford tempo can go from about 45mph to a dead stop real fast)
- madmax96 10y ago
  Agreed that the car data is more reliable than the human. But since we don't have the logs themselves, every conclusion we come to is pure conjecture and obscured by cloudy language.

Alupis 10y ago

> So how does this work? Do we trust the car or the man? Well, until there is a free tool to dump the logs from all of the Tesla cars, and Tesla the company starts releasing the raw data for the public to verify, the more appropriate question is: Do we trust the man or the company? Telsa has a _lot_ to lose, so the temptation to cherry pick data points that tell their desired narrative is fairly strong.

jmcdiesel 10y ago

I'd say trust the car... It would be easy to correlate one sensor failure and one part of the crash (detected hands on the wheels, kept it going int autopilot - because the sensor failure would lead to the crash) But to say that sensors failed, then warning sounds failed, then failsafes failed, becomes rather unbelievable. Also the high drama content of the customer's letter (there is no 50 foot drop off, i just checked on streetview for that entire section of route 2). There is a railroad, then a river, but not a steep drop. Even then, railroads pretty much stop cars dead trying to cross them (dont ask how i know, lets just say a 1986 ford tempo can go from about 45mph to a dead stop real fast)

madmax96 10y ago
Agreed that the car data is more reliable than the human. But since we don't have the logs themselves, every conclusion we come to is pure conjecture and obscured by cloudy language.