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In this crash they give details like the door handle opening from the outside. In the Pennsylvania crash they say autopilot turned itself off 11 seconds before

In this crash they give details like the door handle opening from the outside. In the Pennsylvania crash they say autopilot turned itself off 11 seconds before the crash. In the Florida case they say 'who knows?'. How many seconds did the guy in Florida not have his hands on the wheel? How many alarms were sounded? What did the radar detect? What did the sonar say? Nothing. If Tesla wants to be trusted they need to give out all the relevant information for all crashes, including timestamps, not pick and choose crafted statements that make their PR department happy.

curiousgal 10y ago
Maybe that particular data didn't get transmitted / got corrupted?
- bsdetector 10y ago
  Why are we left to guess about what data exists?
- Alupis 10y ago
  Would they not have said something to that regards then? It does appear, so far, that these "log dumps" are being carefully sifted through and cherry picked for release.
- dragontamer 10y ago
  Maybe Tesla has ownership of this data and only publishes the data that helps their case.
devindotcom 10y ago
We could certainly ask. It may be that they are legally required to publish certain data but not certain other data. It might be the NTSB that determines this, or the privacy laws in the state where the crash took place. Tesla has been pretty transparent, or has appeared to be, for years now. To posit a deliberate conspiracy to obscure unflattering facts seems unnecessary when the company and Musk himself have faced up to unflattering facts before — largely in order to publicly spin them in a positive light, admittedly, but the facts weren't suppressed.
mikeash 10y ago
They said that the radar and camera detected the trailer but that it looked like an overhead sign and so was ignored. The sonar sensors play no role in preventing forward collisions, as they only have a range of about 16 feet. They are used to aid parking and to avoid side collisions from cars in adjacent lanes. Since the system didn't detect any danger, I think it's safe to assume that no alarms sounded. Hands on the wheel isn't relevant, since the problem wasn't one to be solved with steering. Aside from timestamps (which don't seem particularly useful here), this seems to include just about everything interesting.
- etendue 10y ago
  > They said that the radar and camera detected the trailer but that it looked like an overhead sign and so was ignored. Has Tesla or NTSB actually said that? From ref. 1, published today, my emphasis: Tesla *is considering* whether the radar and camera input for the vehicle’s automatic emergency braking system failed to detect the truck trailer or the automatic braking system’s radar may have detected the trailer but discounted this input… [1] http://finance.yahoo.com/news/tesla-mulling-two-theories-explain-191406596.html http://finance.yahoo.com/news/tesla-mulling-two-theories-exp...
  - mikeash 10y ago
    Looking into it, Elon Musk said that the radar ignores overhead signs, but he didn't actually say that was what happened in this case: https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/748625979271045121?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/748625979271045121?ref_s... I don't think it matters much. The main thing is that the system didn't detect the trailer. Exactly why it failed to detect the trailer is interesting, but doesn't change anything about fault or responsibility. And if Tesla is still considering the possibility, then apparently it's hard enough to figure out that just releasing logs wouldn't help us.
    - etendue 10y ago
      > The main thing is that the system didn't detect the trailer. Has that information been made public? Unless it has, that statement would also appear to be speculative at this point. > Exactly why it failed to detect the trailer is interesting, but doesn't change anything about fault or responsibility. I would say that it is far too early to make that declaration, given that the investigation is ongoing.
THE_PUN_STOPS 10y ago
The NTSB is involved in the investigation of the Florida case, but not the others. NTSB investigations are rigorous to the extreme, and move at a pace much, much slower than the media events surrounding the other crashes. Any data that Tesla has regarding the crash will be meticulously picked apart and anything relevant will be published in the comprehensive NTSB report. [1] I imagine there is some force compelling Tesla to be more quiet on that case, whether it is deference to the NTSB, or respect for the fatality. Either way, the data will become known eventually, from quite possibly the most transparent and independent source possible. I look forward to the report. [1] http://www.ntsb.gov/investigations/accidentreports/pages/accidentreports.aspx http://www.ntsb.gov/investigations/accidentreports/pages/acc...

curiousgal 10y ago

Maybe that particular data didn't get transmitted / got corrupted?

bsdetector 10y ago
Why are we left to guess about what data exists?
Alupis 10y ago
Would they not have said something to that regards then? It does appear, so far, that these "log dumps" are being carefully sifted through and cherry picked for release.
dragontamer 10y ago
Maybe Tesla has ownership of this data and only publishes the data that helps their case.

devindotcom 10y ago

We could certainly ask. It may be that they are legally required to publish certain data but not certain other data. It might be the NTSB that determines this, or the privacy laws in the state where the crash took place. Tesla has been pretty transparent, or has appeared to be, for years now. To posit a deliberate conspiracy to obscure unflattering facts seems unnecessary when the company and Musk himself have faced up to unflattering facts before — largely in order to publicly spin them in a positive light, admittedly, but the facts weren't suppressed.

mikeash 10y ago

They said that the radar and camera detected the trailer but that it looked like an overhead sign and so was ignored. The sonar sensors play no role in preventing forward collisions, as they only have a range of about 16 feet. They are used to aid parking and to avoid side collisions from cars in adjacent lanes. Since the system didn't detect any danger, I think it's safe to assume that no alarms sounded. Hands on the wheel isn't relevant, since the problem wasn't one to be solved with steering. Aside from timestamps (which don't seem particularly useful here), this seems to include just about everything interesting.

etendue 10y ago
> They said that the radar and camera detected the trailer but that it looked like an overhead sign and so was ignored. Has Tesla or NTSB actually said that? From ref. 1, published today, my emphasis: Tesla *is considering* whether the radar and camera input for the vehicle’s automatic emergency braking system failed to detect the truck trailer or the automatic braking system’s radar may have detected the trailer but discounted this input… [1] http://finance.yahoo.com/news/tesla-mulling-two-theories-explain-191406596.html http://finance.yahoo.com/news/tesla-mulling-two-theories-exp...
- mikeash 10y ago
  Looking into it, Elon Musk said that the radar ignores overhead signs, but he didn't actually say that was what happened in this case: https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/748625979271045121?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/748625979271045121?ref_s... I don't think it matters much. The main thing is that the system didn't detect the trailer. Exactly why it failed to detect the trailer is interesting, but doesn't change anything about fault or responsibility. And if Tesla is still considering the possibility, then apparently it's hard enough to figure out that just releasing logs wouldn't help us.
  - etendue 10y ago
    > The main thing is that the system didn't detect the trailer. Has that information been made public? Unless it has, that statement would also appear to be speculative at this point. > Exactly why it failed to detect the trailer is interesting, but doesn't change anything about fault or responsibility. I would say that it is far too early to make that declaration, given that the investigation is ongoing.

THE_PUN_STOPS 10y ago

The NTSB is involved in the investigation of the Florida case, but not the others. NTSB investigations are rigorous to the extreme, and move at a pace much, much slower than the media events surrounding the other crashes. Any data that Tesla has regarding the crash will be meticulously picked apart and anything relevant will be published in the comprehensive NTSB report. [1] I imagine there is some force compelling Tesla to be more quiet on that case, whether it is deference to the NTSB, or respect for the fatality. Either way, the data will become known eventually, from quite possibly the most transparent and independent source possible. I look forward to the report. [1] http://www.ntsb.gov/investigations/accidentreports/pages/accidentreports.aspx http://www.ntsb.gov/investigations/accidentreports/pages/acc...