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> Perhaps it is "sandboxed" in the code but in practice I'm not sure you could call it a sandbox from the defense in depth standpoint. Simply running stuff in a

> Perhaps it is "sandboxed" in the code but in practice I'm not sure you could call it a sandbox from the defense in depth standpoint. Simply running stuff in a separate process doesn't count for much if the separate process is not restricted in any way. Exactly this.

cptskippy 10y ago
By that definition Chrome is the only browser that sandboxes. But your comment was on how ridiculous it was that Firefox was the only one not doing it. People's hate of Mozilla is very similar and as misguided as their hate for Microsoft and it really shows in your original statement that they can do no right. Instead of a congratulatory "welcome to the club (of one)", it's "why weren't you a member all along?"
- anon1385 10y ago
  Are you not aware of how Safari works? https://trac.webkit.org/wiki/WebKit2 https://trac.webkit.org/wiki/WebKit2
  - cptskippy 10y ago
    I am, would you like to clarify whatever point it is that you're trying to make?
    - anon1385 10y ago
      Why are you claiming that Safari uses a single process for everything except plugins?
      - cptskippy 10y ago
        I was talking about sandboxing. Multi-process rendering is not the same thing and does not intrinsically sandbox an app or make it more secure.
        anon1385 10y ago
        But Safari uses multiple processes and sandboxes those processes. You keep claiming that there is some difference between it and Chrome but you can't say what it is.
        cptskippy 10y ago
        Safari is a sandboxed app but that covers everything, I have never read about individual process level sandboxing in Safari beyond the plugin sandbox. Are they using XPC or did they roll something custom?
        comex 10y ago
        WebProcess does have its own, more restrictive sandbox, although it's not as tight as Chrome's: https://github.com/WebKit/webkit/blob/master/Source/WebKit2/WebProcess/com.apple.WebProcess.sb.in https://github.com/WebKit/webkit/blob/master/Source/WebKit2/... For IPC they use something custom (part of the WebKit repo) called "CoreIPC".
        cptskippy 10y ago
        That makes sense given that it's open source.
- ryuuchin 10y ago
  > By that definition Chrome is the only browser that sandboxes. I believe most Chromium based browsers could also fall under that category although I admit that's just being pedantic. Furthermore at least Edge and to the lesser extent IE(11) do have some sandboxing which purpose is to enhance security. Their (renderer) processes do run at a low integrity level and are ran within an Appcontainer. On IE11 this is enabled through the use of Enhanced protected mode with 64-bit processes. This allows it to use AppContainers even with the desktop browser. Edge always uses AppContainers AFAIK. I'm not sure it's sandboxed to the same extent as Chrome but it is a level of defense in depth. Edge also uses some security mitigations that Chrome does not such as CFG (control flow guard) although that's not dependent on a sandbox so CFG, baring performance issues, could be used in any browser sandboxed or not.

cptskippy 10y ago

By that definition Chrome is the only browser that sandboxes. But your comment was on how ridiculous it was that Firefox was the only one not doing it. People's hate of Mozilla is very similar and as misguided as their hate for Microsoft and it really shows in your original statement that they can do no right. Instead of a congratulatory "welcome to the club (of one)", it's "why weren't you a member all along?"

anon1385 10y ago
Are you not aware of how Safari works? https://trac.webkit.org/wiki/WebKit2 https://trac.webkit.org/wiki/WebKit2
- cptskippy 10y ago
  I am, would you like to clarify whatever point it is that you're trying to make?
  - anon1385 10y ago
    Why are you claiming that Safari uses a single process for everything except plugins?
    - cptskippy 10y ago
      I was talking about sandboxing. Multi-process rendering is not the same thing and does not intrinsically sandbox an app or make it more secure.
      - anon1385 10y ago
        But Safari uses multiple processes and sandboxes those processes. You keep claiming that there is some difference between it and Chrome but you can't say what it is.
        cptskippy 10y ago
        Safari is a sandboxed app but that covers everything, I have never read about individual process level sandboxing in Safari beyond the plugin sandbox. Are they using XPC or did they roll something custom?
        comex 10y ago
        WebProcess does have its own, more restrictive sandbox, although it's not as tight as Chrome's: https://github.com/WebKit/webkit/blob/master/Source/WebKit2/WebProcess/com.apple.WebProcess.sb.in https://github.com/WebKit/webkit/blob/master/Source/WebKit2/... For IPC they use something custom (part of the WebKit repo) called "CoreIPC".
        cptskippy 10y ago
        That makes sense given that it's open source.
ryuuchin 10y ago
> By that definition Chrome is the only browser that sandboxes. I believe most Chromium based browsers could also fall under that category although I admit that's just being pedantic. Furthermore at least Edge and to the lesser extent IE(11) do have some sandboxing which purpose is to enhance security. Their (renderer) processes do run at a low integrity level and are ran within an Appcontainer. On IE11 this is enabled through the use of Enhanced protected mode with 64-bit processes. This allows it to use AppContainers even with the desktop browser. Edge always uses AppContainers AFAIK. I'm not sure it's sandboxed to the same extent as Chrome but it is a level of defense in depth. Edge also uses some security mitigations that Chrome does not such as CFG (control flow guard) although that's not dependent on a sandbox so CFG, baring performance issues, could be used in any browser sandboxed or not.