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Naive enterprisers think they are exempt from US Securities laws using a 50 year old concept of jurisdiction inside their head That's always cute The CFTC is

Naive enterprisers think they are exempt from US Securities laws using a 50 year old concept of jurisdiction inside their head That's always cute The CFTC is nice, the SEC will come down hard

zdkl 10y ago
Yeah if I fall under a US orgs' jurisdiction as a EU citizen not conducting business with US citizens as far as I can ascertain, please explain where I'm naive? This isn't sarcasm, I can't think of a way the SEC would have any say over the exchange instead of it's potential US clients but would like to hear it
- cloudjacker 10y ago
  > not conducting business with US citizens as far as I can ascertain If you make a reasonable [and effective] effort to not conduct business with US citizens then they will leave you alone. The mere fact that I can access Deribit undermines their exemption. But I've seen the SEC charge people with thinner rationale. For example, a eastern european guy in an alleged insider trading ring only traded CFDs on a European CFD exchange. The SEC claimed that he would know that the exchange would have to make corresponding trades and hedging trades in US equities and therefore he is culpable. If it makes you feel any better, that particular case hasn't reached a verdict yet and was insider trading, so if you feel comfortable dealing with extradition hearings to establish case law in a foreign country or simply not insider trading on US equities, then you'll be fine.
- cloudjacker 10y ago
  Also, the SEC doesn't charge people that merely gain access to unregistered and noncompliant exchanges. So the "US clients" would never create liability for themselves. The majority of the SEC's compliance statutes are levied on businesses that offer any product labelled a security. This is a well distinction defined and quite broad and very difficult to play wordgames with. Its just unfortunate that registration is so expensive.

Naive enterprisers think they are exempt from US Securities laws using a 50 year old concept of jurisdiction inside their head That's always cute The CFTC is nice, the SEC will come down hard

zdkl 10y ago

Yeah if I fall under a US orgs' jurisdiction as a EU citizen not conducting business with US citizens as far as I can ascertain, please explain where I'm naive? This isn't sarcasm, I can't think of a way the SEC would have any say over the exchange instead of it's potential US clients but would like to hear it

cloudjacker 10y ago
> not conducting business with US citizens as far as I can ascertain If you make a reasonable [and effective] effort to not conduct business with US citizens then they will leave you alone. The mere fact that I can access Deribit undermines their exemption. But I've seen the SEC charge people with thinner rationale. For example, a eastern european guy in an alleged insider trading ring only traded CFDs on a European CFD exchange. The SEC claimed that he would know that the exchange would have to make corresponding trades and hedging trades in US equities and therefore he is culpable. If it makes you feel any better, that particular case hasn't reached a verdict yet and was insider trading, so if you feel comfortable dealing with extradition hearings to establish case law in a foreign country or simply not insider trading on US equities, then you'll be fine.
cloudjacker 10y ago
Also, the SEC doesn't charge people that merely gain access to unregistered and noncompliant exchanges. So the "US clients" would never create liability for themselves. The majority of the SEC's compliance statutes are levied on businesses that offer any product labelled a security. This is a well distinction defined and quite broad and very difficult to play wordgames with. Its just unfortunate that registration is so expensive.