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Almost, easyjet and then Ryanair copied the single type, low prices and short routes idea of SouthWestern. What they forgot to copy was the honest price, no fe

Almost, easyjet and then Ryanair copied the single type, low prices and short routes idea of SouthWestern. What they forgot to copy was the honest price, no fees policy and the extremely helpful and friendly staff of SWA and the Canadian equivalent Westjet. What Ryan did was take the SWA idea of being profitable and added the fee structure scams of every major airline and the customer management skills of a Soviet era railway.

seanos 17y ago
Actually I would say that Ryanair is the opposite model. They want to discourage people from checking in baggage, hence the fees. Staffing check-in desks and paying for baggage handling is a cost to the airline and increases turn around times as bags have to me moved on and off the aircraft. The difference is that Ryanair passengers are not, generally, making connecting flights at their destination at least not with Ryanair. They are flying straight to their destination, removing the advantages of checked baggage that exist for Southwest. As for the fees, that is a feature not a bug. It means that people who want to fly as cheaply as possible can (no frills) and those who want the extras such as checked baggage pay. With a no fee structure, essentially the people who don't check baggage, check in online instead of at a desk, don't care where they sit (and speed up boarding times) etc are subsidising those that use those extras.
- imajes 17y ago
  Enjoy paying for your bathroom break. Have you considered what ryanair do with the hold space that they don't fill up with pax baggage?
  - seanos 17y ago
    1. Ryanair do not charge people to go to the toilet, but you might have a good idea there. Having toilets cost money - to service between flights and by taking up space that could be used for seats. Either way you pay for them, in a charge for those who use it or as part of each persons ticket price - take your choice. 2. They can will either fill it with cargo or leave it empty depending on demand. In the first case, Ryanair get paid to transport it and in the second the flight will use less fuel. In either case, the result is cheaper tickets for passengers.
    - lanstein 17y ago
      I think imajes is referring to the fact they they did actually consider that idea a while back.
      - VBprogrammer 17y ago
        Wikipedia suggests that Ryanair release these outlandish ideas once in a while to get some free publicity. While I obviously can't verify that I'm personally inclined to believe it. Since even restaurants have regulations which force them to have toilets when they are over a certain size I can't imagine this idea would be legal. If it is then it'd only be a matter of time before someone who had one too many coffees before getting on board sued them for breaching their human rights by not letting them go to the toilet! I'd agree Ryanair take the opposite model from what was described in this article but they have also highly optimized their approach. No seat back pockets for you to dump your rubbish etc.
        klipt 17y ago
        If it is then it'd only be a matter of time before someone who had one too many coffees before getting on board sued them for breaching their human rights by not letting them go to the toilet! You could avoid that by making it a rebate - pay the usual price for the flight, then if you don't use the toilet at all you can claim x back afterwards.
  - rmc 17y ago
    I would guess that the empty hold space is left empty. If it's empty they don't use as much fuel.
- kljhgfvgbn 17y ago
  The point of the SWA article though, is that airlines don't seem to realise that people carrying masses of carry-on onto the plane slow down the boarding/exiting so much they delay the flight and cost far more money than handling bags would. Also it isn't the baggage fees with Ryanair so much as the price you pay is completely unrelated to the advertised $1 price for the flight. You can only find all the taxes and fees once you have completed the booking - they have even sued external price compare sites which show you the full price. They are constantly being investigated for this under various Eu consumer laws.
  - baltoo 17y ago
    I've flown Ryanair several times and they routinely stop people from boarding with masses of carry-on. Really, if have a lot of stuff they'll tell you to go back to check-in and handle it there. This truly seems to cost both aggravation and time - but perhaps only for the first time. I'd hazard a guess that only a few people, of each Ryanair flight, are rookies. Most people, when faced with harsh measures, really do learn quickly. Perhaps this is, overall and long-term, a cost efficient way to do business.
    - rmc 17y ago
      Yes, Ryanair are very strict with size and number of items. You are only allowed one bag. That includes handbag. Many times I've seen women not allowed on until they get their handbag in their normal bag and both have to fit within the size.
  - rmc 17y ago
    You can see the ryanair full ticket price at the first or second step. It would be impossible to buy a ticket without knowing the price. I suspect the reason ryanair don't like 3rd party sites is because ryanair like pitching hotels and car hire after you buy a ticket.
dpatru 17y ago
Upvoted for the witty analogies.
pedalpete 17y ago
I have to disagree that WestJet is the Canadian equivelant to SWA. Though they don't charge for baggage, they do charge you for a seat... after you've bought a ticket! So after you've bought your ticket, you have to pay a $10+ charge to purchase your seat. The details are here http://www.flyforless.ca/news-westjet/westjet-news37.html http://www.flyforless.ca/news-westjet/westjet-news37.html If that isn't nickel & diming, or bait and switch or whatever, I don't know what is.
- goatforce5 17y ago
  Huh? You pay the fare to get a seat on the plane. If you want the luxury of choosing a specific seat, you then have the option of paying an additional $10 to be assigned the specific seat that you so desperately need. Other airlines do this too - it's not unique to WestJet. To be honest, if the flight was less than about 2 hours i'd probably take my chances as I boarded. More than 2 hours and i'd happily pay $10 to get a decent seat.
  - pedalpete 17y ago
    That's my point. this isn't an 'option' with WestJet to pick a seat. You have to choose a seat. Do you want a $10 seat or a $15 seat, or ... There is no seat included in the price they originally quote you.
- kljhgfvgbn 17y ago
  In terms of single type, domestic only, cheap tickets and informal staff they do. They do still do seat numbers unlike SWA/Easyjet - don't understand why. Yes if you are flying long haul with a family you want to sit together, but a typical 1-2hour hop you just waste time getting up and down to let other people past. You still end up changing seats anyway as they shuffle people around to put families together or deal with unsuitable people in exit seats.

seanos 17y ago

Actually I would say that Ryanair is the opposite model. They want to discourage people from checking in baggage, hence the fees. Staffing check-in desks and paying for baggage handling is a cost to the airline and increases turn around times as bags have to me moved on and off the aircraft. The difference is that Ryanair passengers are not, generally, making connecting flights at their destination at least not with Ryanair. They are flying straight to their destination, removing the advantages of checked baggage that exist for Southwest. As for the fees, that is a feature not a bug. It means that people who want to fly as cheaply as possible can (no frills) and those who want the extras such as checked baggage pay. With a no fee structure, essentially the people who don't check baggage, check in online instead of at a desk, don't care where they sit (and speed up boarding times) etc are subsidising those that use those extras.

imajes 17y ago
Enjoy paying for your bathroom break. Have you considered what ryanair do with the hold space that they don't fill up with pax baggage?
- seanos 17y ago
  1. Ryanair do not charge people to go to the toilet, but you might have a good idea there. Having toilets cost money - to service between flights and by taking up space that could be used for seats. Either way you pay for them, in a charge for those who use it or as part of each persons ticket price - take your choice. 2. They can will either fill it with cargo or leave it empty depending on demand. In the first case, Ryanair get paid to transport it and in the second the flight will use less fuel. In either case, the result is cheaper tickets for passengers.
  - lanstein 17y ago
    I think imajes is referring to the fact they they did actually consider that idea a while back.
    - VBprogrammer 17y ago
      Wikipedia suggests that Ryanair release these outlandish ideas once in a while to get some free publicity. While I obviously can't verify that I'm personally inclined to believe it. Since even restaurants have regulations which force them to have toilets when they are over a certain size I can't imagine this idea would be legal. If it is then it'd only be a matter of time before someone who had one too many coffees before getting on board sued them for breaching their human rights by not letting them go to the toilet! I'd agree Ryanair take the opposite model from what was described in this article but they have also highly optimized their approach. No seat back pockets for you to dump your rubbish etc.
      - klipt 17y ago
        If it is then it'd only be a matter of time before someone who had one too many coffees before getting on board sued them for breaching their human rights by not letting them go to the toilet! You could avoid that by making it a rebate - pay the usual price for the flight, then if you don't use the toilet at all you can claim x back afterwards.
- rmc 17y ago
  I would guess that the empty hold space is left empty. If it's empty they don't use as much fuel.
kljhgfvgbn 17y ago
The point of the SWA article though, is that airlines don't seem to realise that people carrying masses of carry-on onto the plane slow down the boarding/exiting so much they delay the flight and cost far more money than handling bags would. Also it isn't the baggage fees with Ryanair so much as the price you pay is completely unrelated to the advertised $1 price for the flight. You can only find all the taxes and fees once you have completed the booking - they have even sued external price compare sites which show you the full price. They are constantly being investigated for this under various Eu consumer laws.
- baltoo 17y ago
  I've flown Ryanair several times and they routinely stop people from boarding with masses of carry-on. Really, if have a lot of stuff they'll tell you to go back to check-in and handle it there. This truly seems to cost both aggravation and time - but perhaps only for the first time. I'd hazard a guess that only a few people, of each Ryanair flight, are rookies. Most people, when faced with harsh measures, really do learn quickly. Perhaps this is, overall and long-term, a cost efficient way to do business.
  - rmc 17y ago
    Yes, Ryanair are very strict with size and number of items. You are only allowed one bag. That includes handbag. Many times I've seen women not allowed on until they get their handbag in their normal bag and both have to fit within the size.
- rmc 17y ago
  You can see the ryanair full ticket price at the first or second step. It would be impossible to buy a ticket without knowing the price. I suspect the reason ryanair don't like 3rd party sites is because ryanair like pitching hotels and car hire after you buy a ticket.

dpatru 17y ago

Upvoted for the witty analogies.

pedalpete 17y ago

I have to disagree that WestJet is the Canadian equivelant to SWA. Though they don't charge for baggage, they do charge you for a seat... after you've bought a ticket! So after you've bought your ticket, you have to pay a $10+ charge to purchase your seat. The details are here http://www.flyforless.ca/news-westjet/westjet-news37.html http://www.flyforless.ca/news-westjet/westjet-news37.html If that isn't nickel & diming, or bait and switch or whatever, I don't know what is.

goatforce5 17y ago
Huh? You pay the fare to get a seat on the plane. If you want the luxury of choosing a specific seat, you then have the option of paying an additional $10 to be assigned the specific seat that you so desperately need. Other airlines do this too - it's not unique to WestJet. To be honest, if the flight was less than about 2 hours i'd probably take my chances as I boarded. More than 2 hours and i'd happily pay $10 to get a decent seat.
- pedalpete 17y ago
  That's my point. this isn't an 'option' with WestJet to pick a seat. You have to choose a seat. Do you want a $10 seat or a $15 seat, or ... There is no seat included in the price they originally quote you.
kljhgfvgbn 17y ago
In terms of single type, domestic only, cheap tickets and informal staff they do. They do still do seat numbers unlike SWA/Easyjet - don't understand why. Yes if you are flying long haul with a family you want to sit together, but a typical 1-2hour hop you just waste time getting up and down to let other people past. You still end up changing seats anyway as they shuffle people around to put families together or deal with unsuitable people in exit seats.