5 ms·

This person is counting the node_modules directory. While JS is a bit insane and this directory will have a ridiculous number of files, they are concerned: "b

This person is counting the node_modules directory. While JS is a bit insane and this directory will have a ridiculous number of files, they are concerned: "because my deployment (google app engine) allows only 10K files" meaning, they don't realize that node_modules is for development and not related to the application they would actually deploy.

DHMO 10y ago
> and not related to the application they would actually deploy. this. Granted, it's the same with everything- if you expanded every compressed file and counted every class, most languages and frameworks would just be incredibly nuts, because all of them aren't needed. But, something could be done about that; you could better differentiate what is there for convenience, and what needs to be there and make the developer more aware of what they are using. It can make development more difficult if done poorly, but good examples of minimalist development are out there, e.g. Sinatra and similar frameworks that said X is too much- just use this.
sotojuan 10y ago
Hope this comment stays at the top before all the "wow JS sucks!!!" people arrive :-) Though to be fair a "modern" JS dev environment does use a ton of stuff! IIRC Angular 2 production builds are actually pretty efficient.
- merb 10y ago
  > Though to be fair a "modern" JS dev environment does use a ton of stuff! Though to be fair a "modern" JS dev environment does use a ton of unnecessary stuff! I fixed your comment.
  - sotojuan 10y ago
    Eh, transpiling ES2015+ to ES5 is not unnecessary if it makes you more productive—Babel is just really big.
    - Klathmon 10y ago
      Well to be fair, does anyone expect a compiler to be small?
      - sotojuan 10y ago
        https://gitlab.com/Rich-Harris/buble https://gitlab.com/Rich-Harris/buble Buble says "Files (940 KB)" but it doesn't do everything Babel does (just a strict subset).
        Klathmon 10y ago
        I know that it's possible, but what's the purpose? Is anyone's quality of life really impacted by the size of babel vs buble? Does the size of a compiler really change anything for the average developer (obviously within reason)?
        sotojuan 10y ago
        I personally don't care but I've had super long install times when using slow internet—which in many parts of the world is the standard speed. I'll keep using Babel, but I like that there are alternatives that install faster if need be.
        Klathmon 10y ago
        I agree. Also there are multiple ways that you can install these things. The "recommended" way is to install babel for each project independently. Space is cheap, internet speeds are fast for many, and avoiding version issues outweighs the savings. But you can install globally, so you'd install babel once and can use it in all projects that way. Then throw in the possibility of different package managers and you get a crazy amount of freedom and choice. People get overwhelmed with "javascript fatigue" and I just don't get it. You don't need to do everything, but having the option to is amazing.
        10y ago
- Svenskunganka 10y ago
  IIRC the Angular2 production builds are the largest among all the frameworks. If you add the router it sits just shy of a meg - and that's just the dependencies. Not sure if they've started working on bringing the size down yet, but there are 1KB alternatives[1] for those who cares about their users. [1] - http://monkberry.js.org/ http://monkberry.js.org/
  - vbernat 10y ago
    This website froze my Firefox running on an i7 CPU due to the animated background.
- emodendroket 10y ago
  I'm not sure the right conclusion here is "oh, well then that is reasonable."

DHMO 10y ago

> and not related to the application they would actually deploy. this. Granted, it's the same with everything- if you expanded every compressed file and counted every class, most languages and frameworks would just be incredibly nuts, because all of them aren't needed. But, something could be done about that; you could better differentiate what is there for convenience, and what needs to be there and make the developer more aware of what they are using. It can make development more difficult if done poorly, but good examples of minimalist development are out there, e.g. Sinatra and similar frameworks that said X is too much- just use this.

sotojuan 10y ago

Hope this comment stays at the top before all the "wow JS sucks!!!" people arrive :-) Though to be fair a "modern" JS dev environment does use a ton of stuff! IIRC Angular 2 production builds are actually pretty efficient.

merb 10y ago
> Though to be fair a "modern" JS dev environment does use a ton of stuff! Though to be fair a "modern" JS dev environment does use a ton of unnecessary stuff! I fixed your comment.
- sotojuan 10y ago
  Eh, transpiling ES2015+ to ES5 is not unnecessary if it makes you more productive—Babel is just really big.
  - Klathmon 10y ago
    Well to be fair, does anyone expect a compiler to be small?
    - sotojuan 10y ago
      https://gitlab.com/Rich-Harris/buble https://gitlab.com/Rich-Harris/buble Buble says "Files (940 KB)" but it doesn't do everything Babel does (just a strict subset).
      - Klathmon 10y ago
        I know that it's possible, but what's the purpose? Is anyone's quality of life really impacted by the size of babel vs buble? Does the size of a compiler really change anything for the average developer (obviously within reason)?
        sotojuan 10y ago
        I personally don't care but I've had super long install times when using slow internet—which in many parts of the world is the standard speed. I'll keep using Babel, but I like that there are alternatives that install faster if need be.
        Klathmon 10y ago
        I agree. Also there are multiple ways that you can install these things. The "recommended" way is to install babel for each project independently. Space is cheap, internet speeds are fast for many, and avoiding version issues outweighs the savings. But you can install globally, so you'd install babel once and can use it in all projects that way. Then throw in the possibility of different package managers and you get a crazy amount of freedom and choice. People get overwhelmed with "javascript fatigue" and I just don't get it. You don't need to do everything, but having the option to is amazing.
        10y ago
Svenskunganka 10y ago
IIRC the Angular2 production builds are the largest among all the frameworks. If you add the router it sits just shy of a meg - and that's just the dependencies. Not sure if they've started working on bringing the size down yet, but there are 1KB alternatives[1] for those who cares about their users. [1] - http://monkberry.js.org/ http://monkberry.js.org/
- vbernat 10y ago
  This website froze my Firefox running on an i7 CPU due to the animated background.
emodendroket 10y ago
I'm not sure the right conclusion here is "oh, well then that is reasonable."