5 ms·

I left a company with great work/life balance but rather average or even low salary after 2 1/2 years for a startup but after a month into the job they introduc

by ufukbay 10y ago

I left a company with great work/life balance but rather average or even low salary after 2 1/2 years for a startup but after a month into the job they introduced those stupid stopwatch JIRA plugins to measure time spent on tickets plus time sheets. I know not everyone can maybe afford to do this but this is something I'm never going to put up with and I left after only 3 months purely out of frustration without even having a new gig. (Was quite suprised to be approached immediately by a subsidiary of a well known online auction house, where I'm still working for 2 years now.) If you don't have a family (wife + kids) be bold and don't put up with such inhuman conditions. Developers are high in demand and this is the time to use the opportunity.

blowski 10y ago
Are you really saying that having to record timesheets counts as 'inhuman conditions'? That's the way I read your comment, sorry if it's not what you meant. But if it is what you meant, then I urge you to read about modern human slavery, domestic servitude, sex trafficking, etc, and reconsider.
- Retric 10y ago
  Something is not ok just because other things are worse.
- ufukbay 10y ago
  @Retric: Exactly my thoughts. Amazing how you could express it in one short, concise sentence! :)
  - blowski 10y ago
    Something is not 'abuse' just because you don't want to do it. Workplace abuse has a specific definition and being asked to keep time sheets does not meet it by a long way.
tostitos1979 10y ago
Kudos to you. If all developers acted this way, we'd have a lot less abuse. I doubt any sane developer would come up with the idea of a stopwatch plugin on programming tasks. But I know some PMs who would. It is scary how being well-spoken and technically oblivious leads people to success in our industry.
- blowski 10y ago
  No, asking people to log time is not abuse. Perhaps it's counter-productive (but even that's debatable as it depends on a lot of things). But it most definitely is not abuse. Abuse is having the shit kicked out of you for answering back. Or being locked in a room for 48 hours without food or drink because you made a mistake. Or having your passport taken away and being forced to work for 18 hour days, 7 days per week, with no holiday and no pay. All these things are happening in our world today, and equating them with programmers having to keep timesheets is ridiculous. It makes us sound like a bunch of spoiled babies who cry when we aren't allowed to play all day. So please use a different word than 'abuse' to describe something you prefer not to do at work.
  - ufukbay 10y ago
    Meh, if you want to go to the extremes there is no limit. I agree with what you said but it's completely out of context and I don't see how it is related to the topic. In my eyes, it's relative to you or the situation in which you are in. For me personally it felt a lot like abuse and utter lack of trust to resolve using time sheets for a permanent position (not talking about freelancers and contractors). Also why do you think that we are spoiled? I'm so fed up of people making software development look like a piece of cake and so easy. I tried to help some of my friends start with coding but after couple days they were quite overwhelmed and thought it was not so straightforward as imagined or as it looks to be. I'm also not talking about creating a hello world HTML document. I'm definitely not a rock star programmer but I try to be solid one with hands-on mindset. I have 5 1/2 years experience working as a front end developer and there is still so much to learn and to improve on. Software development (especially web) is a field where you need to stay up to date and keen. We might not be exhausted physically but it's much harder to recharge and relax your mind. This is why we shouldn't just put up with everything (timesheets is only one example of many) for the sake of having a job at all (because there are so many unemployed people right?). There are people who want to play safe and I'm fine with that but I learned that "no risk no fun" is true. Update: I want to add that I'm always grateful for what I have and don't take anything for granted. However I also know that I don't get anything for free unless you work hard for it.

by ufukbay 10y ago

blowski 10y ago

Are you really saying that having to record timesheets counts as 'inhuman conditions'? That's the way I read your comment, sorry if it's not what you meant. But if it is what you meant, then I urge you to read about modern human slavery, domestic servitude, sex trafficking, etc, and reconsider.

Retric 10y ago
Something is not ok just because other things are worse.
ufukbay 10y ago
@Retric: Exactly my thoughts. Amazing how you could express it in one short, concise sentence! :)
- blowski 10y ago
  Something is not 'abuse' just because you don't want to do it. Workplace abuse has a specific definition and being asked to keep time sheets does not meet it by a long way.

tostitos1979 10y ago

Kudos to you. If all developers acted this way, we'd have a lot less abuse. I doubt any sane developer would come up with the idea of a stopwatch plugin on programming tasks. But I know some PMs who would. It is scary how being well-spoken and technically oblivious leads people to success in our industry.

blowski 10y ago
No, asking people to log time is not abuse. Perhaps it's counter-productive (but even that's debatable as it depends on a lot of things). But it most definitely is not abuse. Abuse is having the shit kicked out of you for answering back. Or being locked in a room for 48 hours without food or drink because you made a mistake. Or having your passport taken away and being forced to work for 18 hour days, 7 days per week, with no holiday and no pay. All these things are happening in our world today, and equating them with programmers having to keep timesheets is ridiculous. It makes us sound like a bunch of spoiled babies who cry when we aren't allowed to play all day. So please use a different word than 'abuse' to describe something you prefer not to do at work.
- ufukbay 10y ago
  Meh, if you want to go to the extremes there is no limit. I agree with what you said but it's completely out of context and I don't see how it is related to the topic. In my eyes, it's relative to you or the situation in which you are in. For me personally it felt a lot like abuse and utter lack of trust to resolve using time sheets for a permanent position (not talking about freelancers and contractors). Also why do you think that we are spoiled? I'm so fed up of people making software development look like a piece of cake and so easy. I tried to help some of my friends start with coding but after couple days they were quite overwhelmed and thought it was not so straightforward as imagined or as it looks to be. I'm also not talking about creating a hello world HTML document. I'm definitely not a rock star programmer but I try to be solid one with hands-on mindset. I have 5 1/2 years experience working as a front end developer and there is still so much to learn and to improve on. Software development (especially web) is a field where you need to stay up to date and keen. We might not be exhausted physically but it's much harder to recharge and relax your mind. This is why we shouldn't just put up with everything (timesheets is only one example of many) for the sake of having a job at all (because there are so many unemployed people right?). There are people who want to play safe and I'm fine with that but I learned that "no risk no fun" is true. Update: I want to add that I'm always grateful for what I have and don't take anything for granted. However I also know that I don't get anything for free unless you work hard for it.