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This is always worrying to see when set as an expectation. I mean, I enjoy coding. My employer gets my 40-ish hours of attention. But I just can't seem to get i

This is always worrying to see when set as an expectation. I mean, I enjoy coding. My employer gets my 40-ish hours of attention. But I just can't seem to get into after-hours or weekend coding side projects. I have ideas to explore (Nothing I'd ever want to turn into a business, perish the thought), but I just... can't find the motivation to spend more hours doing what I already spend about a third of my life doing. I enjoy reading articles and the like, sure, but if I wanted to work on side projects, I'd need to take extended time away from work to "reset" and get into something. Does this make me destined to fall behind? I'm hoping not, but given how many people talk about needing one's job to be their all-consuming passion, to be something they spend spare time and weekends on... I'm not always hopeful.

keymon-o 10y ago
I don't think coding side projects should be anything more than a hobby. Difference between coding for work and coding as a hobby is that with hobby you don't stress out yourself, but it relaxes you and makes you feel good. If you take coding at home serious as you (presumably) do at work, like following deadlines, doing stuff you don't enjoy, stress yourself out, then it is a very unhealthy expectation.
- gedrap 10y ago
  Same. Probably that's why I usually abandon my side projects ;) well, at least I learn something new every time. Just sometimes you need to get focused and finish some ugly small issue that prevents you from actually shipping. The feeling of shipping something that works usually beats it all at the end.
thomasnno 10y ago
I honestly believe that as long as you are always trying to improve and don't coast, you should be good. I do not do side projects after work, but do try to work on my coding skills, focus and discipline during the workday. 17 years and counting, and every single year I improve (some times only by a little bit, but it really adds up).
greyskull 10y ago
I was the same way. I spent my college years poring over HN, /r/programming, various blogs and articles. An older software engineer I knew was always surprised at how many things I knew and had opinions about, even though I was inexperienced. But I never actually wrote up a "complete" project in my own time, not a single one, I couldn't stick to anything. And I kept worrying that it would make me less employable. Yet I got my offer at [large, popular software company] before I graduated, only on my merits. I think the best that can be expected is that you do your work, do it well, and never stop growing. You don't have to dump time into coding outside of work, just don't get complacent. That's assuming you don't have crappy leadership, in which case you may want to consider a different team or company. As an example: I know a guy who's about to become a 3rd level developer at [large, popular software company] at the age of 28, which is a pretty big deal from a career development perspective. I don't think he's touched a line of code, or a single technical article, outside of work in the 5 years he's been here. He regularly works 25-30 hour weeks. He's just smart, puts out good projects, and is productive when he needs to be.
- kagamine 10y ago
  Someone asked on reddit a couple of weeks back why, when they sit with a coding problem for 4 hours at work the solution suddenly comes to them in 5 minutes the next day. I think your colleague's 30 hour week might be allowing time for him to think about his work without being at a desk doing his work. In other words, when he isn't being forced to make a show of presence he is working through solutions and processes in his mind. I work where we fill out time sheets every day detailing what we worked on hour by hour (in part and in fairness also for billing reasons). It is counterproductive as I constantly stress about every minute I use on a task and worry I am taking too long. The results I see are those of programmers trying to please project managers and billing accounts, not good products that are optimized. Nobody seems to have time make something good. The 30 hour guy probably isn't much smarter than the rest of us, he might just have the freedom to create with a relaxed mind. Stress apparently blocks creativity.
  - gjvc 10y ago
    "freedom to create with a relaxed mind" -- as I read this I realised that's what I've been missing for so long, and is what I try (mostly without success) to make time for outside of work. "Stress apparently blocks creativity" -- most certainly does.
tooFastFuckYou 10y ago
I've often reflected on being able to get passionate about designing software for some really boring stuff. Like commercial leasing. If you're into high quality and good design, eventually you're going to get riled up on the job. Otherwise you just don't have standards. But I feel like I got a lot more side projects done in high school. I'm talking programming on my Atari 8-bits. Even learned assembly language. And did all my homework, and had friends. Now I wonder how I got it all done. And back then, all we had was books and Compute and Antic magazines; no Internet! I think you just lose patience with it and begrudge the time you could be spending doing something else. Now, even though I ended up developing software at some of the world's most famous companies, I wonder if those hours wouldn't have been better spent learning music. Hm, off to my guitar!
orthoganol 10y ago
Probably not what people want to hear, but I think it's near impossible to complete a significant personal project while working a FT day job, let alone gain the inspiration for something unique and meaningful. If you're really passionate about pursuing your own projects, unless you are superhuman, I think you'll have to take time off work, or find something PT or flexible consulting hours.
- tluyben2 10y ago
  In my experience that is not true and I am really not superhuman. I am passionate about entrepreneurship and programming though. Edit: Over time, 3 of my side projects allowed me to move country, take a 5 year 'sabbatical' (for me that mostly consisted of programming and repairing old 70-80s computers and developing new projects) and basically do whatever I like. If only for my 'main job' I would've not made that happen for a while (note; this was 8-9 years ago).
- taneq 10y ago
  I find it really hard to be passionate about personal projects at the same time as work projects. The moment I get excited about something at work, all of my personal stuff gets instantly shelved. Then, when work turns non-technical, all of a sudden I'm all fired up for my old projects.
  - hbhakhra 10y ago
    I've seen this exact cycle multiple times with my job. I got into programming because I enjoy it and find it fulfilling. When I hit boring times at my job, I seek that fulfillment with side projects.
- varjag 10y ago
  It's entirely doable unless you are on a permanent death march at work. Us modern people have it incredibly easy with appliances doing the bulk of the chores home.
  - cableshaft 10y ago
sokoloff 10y ago
> Does this make me destined to fall behind? IMO, yes it does, but only behind a tiny sliver of developers. You can still have an excellent and rewarding (professionally and financially) without putting in the extra effort and without the "true calling" that some devs have (and many more blog about having). If you don't have the passion to spend time on nights/weekends coding projects, don't do it. You'll still do OK. You probably won't do quite as well as someone who does, but excelling at work is only one aspect of a happy life. (I think it would be foolish to pretend though that someone else equally talented who has greater passion and puts in 50% more effort won't have better outcomes in their field over a large population study.)
pietro 10y ago
I wouldn't worry at all if I were you. You're incredibly lucky to enjoy your job, and life has so much more to offer than coding, including family and friends. Your lack of all-comsuming passion for coding could easily be your ticket to a better life.
maxxxxx 10y ago
I don't think it's about side projects. When I am on a good project the 40 hours for my employer are really interesting and i may spend more time at home reading up stuff because it makes sense. But it's hard to spend 40 hours a week with some dull, uninspiring work and then go home and be motivated do something cool. The dull work pretty much drains all energy out of you.
- vonmoltke 10y ago
  This has been a serious problem for me. At best it makes slogging through the workday much harder. At worst it sends me into a depressive tailspin where I feel like I am destroying my career.

keymon-o 10y ago

I don't think coding side projects should be anything more than a hobby. Difference between coding for work and coding as a hobby is that with hobby you don't stress out yourself, but it relaxes you and makes you feel good. If you take coding at home serious as you (presumably) do at work, like following deadlines, doing stuff you don't enjoy, stress yourself out, then it is a very unhealthy expectation.

gedrap 10y ago
Same. Probably that's why I usually abandon my side projects ;) well, at least I learn something new every time. Just sometimes you need to get focused and finish some ugly small issue that prevents you from actually shipping. The feeling of shipping something that works usually beats it all at the end.

thomasnno 10y ago

I honestly believe that as long as you are always trying to improve and don't coast, you should be good. I do not do side projects after work, but do try to work on my coding skills, focus and discipline during the workday. 17 years and counting, and every single year I improve (some times only by a little bit, but it really adds up).

greyskull 10y ago

I was the same way. I spent my college years poring over HN, /r/programming, various blogs and articles. An older software engineer I knew was always surprised at how many things I knew and had opinions about, even though I was inexperienced. But I never actually wrote up a "complete" project in my own time, not a single one, I couldn't stick to anything. And I kept worrying that it would make me less employable. Yet I got my offer at [large, popular software company] before I graduated, only on my merits. I think the best that can be expected is that you do your work, do it well, and never stop growing. You don't have to dump time into coding outside of work, just don't get complacent. That's assuming you don't have crappy leadership, in which case you may want to consider a different team or company. As an example: I know a guy who's about to become a 3rd level developer at [large, popular software company] at the age of 28, which is a pretty big deal from a career development perspective. I don't think he's touched a line of code, or a single technical article, outside of work in the 5 years he's been here. He regularly works 25-30 hour weeks. He's just smart, puts out good projects, and is productive when he needs to be.

kagamine 10y ago
Someone asked on reddit a couple of weeks back why, when they sit with a coding problem for 4 hours at work the solution suddenly comes to them in 5 minutes the next day. I think your colleague's 30 hour week might be allowing time for him to think about his work without being at a desk doing his work. In other words, when he isn't being forced to make a show of presence he is working through solutions and processes in his mind. I work where we fill out time sheets every day detailing what we worked on hour by hour (in part and in fairness also for billing reasons). It is counterproductive as I constantly stress about every minute I use on a task and worry I am taking too long. The results I see are those of programmers trying to please project managers and billing accounts, not good products that are optimized. Nobody seems to have time make something good. The 30 hour guy probably isn't much smarter than the rest of us, he might just have the freedom to create with a relaxed mind. Stress apparently blocks creativity.
- gjvc 10y ago
  "freedom to create with a relaxed mind" -- as I read this I realised that's what I've been missing for so long, and is what I try (mostly without success) to make time for outside of work. "Stress apparently blocks creativity" -- most certainly does.

tooFastFuckYou 10y ago

I've often reflected on being able to get passionate about designing software for some really boring stuff. Like commercial leasing. If you're into high quality and good design, eventually you're going to get riled up on the job. Otherwise you just don't have standards. But I feel like I got a lot more side projects done in high school. I'm talking programming on my Atari 8-bits. Even learned assembly language. And did all my homework, and had friends. Now I wonder how I got it all done. And back then, all we had was books and Compute and Antic magazines; no Internet! I think you just lose patience with it and begrudge the time you could be spending doing something else. Now, even though I ended up developing software at some of the world's most famous companies, I wonder if those hours wouldn't have been better spent learning music. Hm, off to my guitar!

orthoganol 10y ago

Probably not what people want to hear, but I think it's near impossible to complete a significant personal project while working a FT day job, let alone gain the inspiration for something unique and meaningful. If you're really passionate about pursuing your own projects, unless you are superhuman, I think you'll have to take time off work, or find something PT or flexible consulting hours.

tluyben2 10y ago
In my experience that is not true and I am really not superhuman. I am passionate about entrepreneurship and programming though. Edit: Over time, 3 of my side projects allowed me to move country, take a 5 year 'sabbatical' (for me that mostly consisted of programming and repairing old 70-80s computers and developing new projects) and basically do whatever I like. If only for my 'main job' I would've not made that happen for a while (note; this was 8-9 years ago).
taneq 10y ago
I find it really hard to be passionate about personal projects at the same time as work projects. The moment I get excited about something at work, all of my personal stuff gets instantly shelved. Then, when work turns non-technical, all of a sudden I'm all fired up for my old projects.
- hbhakhra 10y ago
  I've seen this exact cycle multiple times with my job. I got into programming because I enjoy it and find it fulfilling. When I hit boring times at my job, I seek that fulfillment with side projects.
varjag 10y ago
It's entirely doable unless you are on a permanent death march at work. Us modern people have it incredibly easy with appliances doing the bulk of the chores home.
- cableshaft 10y ago

sokoloff 10y ago

> Does this make me destined to fall behind? IMO, yes it does, but only behind a tiny sliver of developers. You can still have an excellent and rewarding (professionally and financially) without putting in the extra effort and without the "true calling" that some devs have (and many more blog about having). If you don't have the passion to spend time on nights/weekends coding projects, don't do it. You'll still do OK. You probably won't do quite as well as someone who does, but excelling at work is only one aspect of a happy life. (I think it would be foolish to pretend though that someone else equally talented who has greater passion and puts in 50% more effort won't have better outcomes in their field over a large population study.)

pietro 10y ago

I wouldn't worry at all if I were you. You're incredibly lucky to enjoy your job, and life has so much more to offer than coding, including family and friends. Your lack of all-comsuming passion for coding could easily be your ticket to a better life.

maxxxxx 10y ago

I don't think it's about side projects. When I am on a good project the 40 hours for my employer are really interesting and i may spend more time at home reading up stuff because it makes sense. But it's hard to spend 40 hours a week with some dull, uninspiring work and then go home and be motivated do something cool. The dull work pretty much drains all energy out of you.

vonmoltke 10y ago
This has been a serious problem for me. At best it makes slogging through the workday much harder. At worst it sends me into a depressive tailspin where I feel like I am destroying my career.