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We are still using email to this day as a relied-upon means of communication -- easy to spoof, difficult to secure, and commonly exploited for spam. I don't se

We are still using email to this day as a relied-upon means of communication -- easy to spoof, difficult to secure, and commonly exploited for spam. I don't see this as a case of "if it ain't broke, don't fix it".

Aloha 10y ago
I'd suggest that a majority of users do not value those characteristics - email is "good enough" for its intended purpose.
toopok4k3 10y ago
When you think about it, real letters and the postal system have the exact same issues.
erikb 10y ago
This makes me a little speechless. If a system has these attributes that was carefully crafted, complex, proprietary, then I would agree it's a bad thing. But email is basically putting text in a certain format and transporting it from A to B. It's simple and open, of course people use it to do bad things as well. Side note: Do you really still have problems with easy to spoof messages? Or with spam? Especially the last one is a non-issue nowadays, I think. In the past we had like hundreds of spam mails unfiltered in our inboxes. Now I have a really good spam filter and checking my spam box from time to time I don't even see that many messages popping up.
- ysleepy 10y ago
  Haha, ever tried to set up your own mail server? Nowadays you are de facto bound to mega providers to get reasonable mail service. It's just not an open platform anymore if you periodically can't send mail to 50% user base silos (yahoo, gmail, live) because of unpredictable spam filtering and no support from them to fix it. And you need like 1GiB of RAM just to run the spam filtering monster software patchwork of perl spaghetti. Not even mentioning the maintanance work of updating this stuff. Mail is forever broken and converges to a marked with high entry barriers in which only google and microsoft play.
  - jlgaddis 10y ago
    I've got one Barracuda left in production. It has 512 MB of RAM but handles tens of thousands of messages a day. Hosts running FreeBSD with 1 GB of RAM handle a few times that with ease.
- eatbitseveryday 10y ago
  I think my point was not just from the perspective of a user of email. There are entire research thrusts just in identifying spam, nowadays using machine learning, even. Much bandwidth is wasted, and if you set up your own boxes, you'll have to deal with it yourself, minimally with something like SpamAssasin.
mrweasel 10y ago
>I don't see this as a case of "if it ain't broke, don't fix it" It's just that every time someone attempts to "reinvent email" or replace email, they end up creating something worse or at least something less flexible.
- eatbitseveryday 10y ago
  Attempts to deal with the existing state of affairs, such as Lavabit, Protonmail who offer security, cannot offer enough features due to limitations in how email works. What big proposals have been made to revamp email entirely?
deleted 10y ago
[deleted]
pjc50 10y ago
As others have said, people keep trying to 'fix' email and failing. The problems of email are fundamentally very hard to solve without centralisation: - in order to define "spoofing" you need an identity agency (or signing) - in order to secure email (and signing) you need a key distribution system, preferably with an identity system so you can get the right keys for someone you're trying to communicate with. You also need to solve "local" key distribution among the user's computers, phones, fridges etc. - in order to deal with spam you need someone to identify it and filter it for you, which inherently gives them access privileges to your mail.

Aloha 10y ago

I'd suggest that a majority of users do not value those characteristics - email is "good enough" for its intended purpose.

toopok4k3 10y ago

When you think about it, real letters and the postal system have the exact same issues.

erikb 10y ago

This makes me a little speechless. If a system has these attributes that was carefully crafted, complex, proprietary, then I would agree it's a bad thing. But email is basically putting text in a certain format and transporting it from A to B. It's simple and open, of course people use it to do bad things as well. Side note: Do you really still have problems with easy to spoof messages? Or with spam? Especially the last one is a non-issue nowadays, I think. In the past we had like hundreds of spam mails unfiltered in our inboxes. Now I have a really good spam filter and checking my spam box from time to time I don't even see that many messages popping up.

ysleepy 10y ago
Haha, ever tried to set up your own mail server? Nowadays you are de facto bound to mega providers to get reasonable mail service. It's just not an open platform anymore if you periodically can't send mail to 50% user base silos (yahoo, gmail, live) because of unpredictable spam filtering and no support from them to fix it. And you need like 1GiB of RAM just to run the spam filtering monster software patchwork of perl spaghetti. Not even mentioning the maintanance work of updating this stuff. Mail is forever broken and converges to a marked with high entry barriers in which only google and microsoft play.
- jlgaddis 10y ago
  I've got one Barracuda left in production. It has 512 MB of RAM but handles tens of thousands of messages a day. Hosts running FreeBSD with 1 GB of RAM handle a few times that with ease.
eatbitseveryday 10y ago
I think my point was not just from the perspective of a user of email. There are entire research thrusts just in identifying spam, nowadays using machine learning, even. Much bandwidth is wasted, and if you set up your own boxes, you'll have to deal with it yourself, minimally with something like SpamAssasin.

mrweasel 10y ago

>I don't see this as a case of "if it ain't broke, don't fix it" It's just that every time someone attempts to "reinvent email" or replace email, they end up creating something worse or at least something less flexible.

eatbitseveryday 10y ago
Attempts to deal with the existing state of affairs, such as Lavabit, Protonmail who offer security, cannot offer enough features due to limitations in how email works. What big proposals have been made to revamp email entirely?

deleted 10y ago

[deleted]

pjc50 10y ago

As others have said, people keep trying to 'fix' email and failing. The problems of email are fundamentally very hard to solve without centralisation: - in order to define "spoofing" you need an identity agency (or signing) - in order to secure email (and signing) you need a key distribution system, preferably with an identity system so you can get the right keys for someone you're trying to communicate with. You also need to solve "local" key distribution among the user's computers, phones, fridges etc. - in order to deal with spam you need someone to identify it and filter it for you, which inherently gives them access privileges to your mail.