4 ms·

The city is currently requiring many owners of soft story buildings in the Outer Richmond district to pay for seismic refitting.

wahern 10y ago
Only those buildings with 5 or more units, which is only a tiny fraction of the structures. Ideally it should be every building, but it's ridiculously expensive to install moment frames, which is pretty much what every house needs given the typical layout of the houses. Each installation costs between $30k to $50k, and as well-off as you need to be to afford to purchase in San Francisco, that's still an expense few can justify even if they could afford it. We had structural plywood sheathing installed in our garage, and the typical job is around $10k. The pre-existing sheathing was installed by [presumably] a fly-by-night contractor shortly after the 1989 earthquake. Fortunately I noticed that it wasn't installed correctly and used the wrong materials, and so it was basically useless. But given that the garage door, garage side entrance, and entryway make up greater than 80% of the front wall of our first story, that we have a big window and door on the back wall, there's not much room for sheathing (properly installed or not) to control movement along that axis. The house is now very unlikely to collapse into the street, but we're still lucky to be sandwiched between two other houses. Fortunately, our neighbor on the corner had his foundation rebuilt and a third structural wall installed. I should probably be remunerating him somehow.
omegaworks 10y ago
...And allowing them to pass on 100% of the cost to their renters.
- vonmoltke 10y ago
  So, you think landlords should operate at a loss for the benefit of their tenants?
  - thebooktocome 10y ago
    On the other hand, how fast does an empty unit depreciate in value?
  - 205guy 10y ago
    So you think that capital investments (in this case property) should have zero risk, in other words guaranteed returns?
    - alasdair_ 10y ago
      Obviously not. If the price is too high, people will not pay it.
    - vonmoltke 10y ago
      I didn't say anything about zero risk. As the sibling comment indicates, if the cost is too high tenants will refuse to pay it by not renting the place. How long it takes the landlord to recoup the costs will depend on the local market for rentals.
  - omegaworks 10y ago
    Not at all. I do, however, feel there should be some incentive for him to shop around for a good price.
    - tomcam 10y ago
      We call that "the profit motive"
    - vonmoltke 10y ago
      Landlords may be the only group outside of government who is notorious for always going with the lowest bidder for jobs. A landlord who doesn't shop around for everything isn't going to be in the real estate business for very long.
- fennecfoxen 10y ago
  The fact that they're not able to pass 100% of the cost of whatever capital improvements they feel like on to their renters is part of a massive wealth transfer from landlords to long-established tenants. In other circumstances I'd accuse that of deterring investment and being a contributor to the terrible housing situation in the Bay Area in general, but honestly, the zoning / planning-permit situation is the first limiting factor.
  - irq11 10y ago
    Instead of "massive wealth transfer", I think you meant to write "slight dent in disgustingly fat profit margins", because - just based on aggregate metrics - most landlords are making a stone-cold killing in this market. Indeed, let's all shed a tear for the SF landlord. I don't know how those poor folks can stay in business when property taxes are capped and median rent rises at ten times the rate of inflation!
    - discardorama 10y ago
      Clearly, you have not heard of "rent control". I know people paying $1200/month for a 2BR in the heart of the City. I even met a guy who was paying $350 for a 1BR in Nob Hill, not far from Grace Cathedral. About 72% of SF's units are under rent control. So not all landlords are making "fat profit margins".
    - fennecfoxen 10y ago
      Individual landlords don't see (real) rent increases for apartments are all subject to rent control. They only get an incremental adjustment for inflation. If a landlord owns an apartment but it is occupied by a tenant under rent control, it doesn't matter if the property is "worth" 10x as much. His rent collected hasn't gone up, and he can't sell it for 10x as much because that tenant has very strong legal protections around his use of the property at its price. In that case, 90% of the property's annual returns is being enjoyed by the tenant for as long as he stays there. (He may be able to realize a gain after the tenant moves away or dies, but he's still lost out on the decades of rent which he would have been able to get at market rates.) Considering that any landlord buying a property will certainly be on the hook for the downside in a property if the housing market crashed, and you'll see that this isn't the greatest. (BUT THE HOUSING MARKET ONLY GOES UP AND WILL NEVER CRASH hahahahahaha yeah right). Anyway. In general one needn't shed a tear for landlords and capitalists of their ilk for failure to make a profit: the money is its own reward. But we do need to respect the money (because that is the reward), the precise behaviors we are incentivizing, and the impact of political risk which we are inflict upon the people we might want to spend money investing in the region. For instance: making things like this risky means that risk-tolerant entities are likely to be involved (which means the rich guys, speculators and businesses that San Francisco loves, not individual homeowners). And the price of the landlord assuming any political risk will find itself baked into the price of any new rental property. But as I was saying: it's kinda moot from a median-apartment-price perspective if nothing new gets built anyway for other reasons.

wahern 10y ago

Only those buildings with 5 or more units, which is only a tiny fraction of the structures. Ideally it should be every building, but it's ridiculously expensive to install moment frames, which is pretty much what every house needs given the typical layout of the houses. Each installation costs between $30k to $50k, and as well-off as you need to be to afford to purchase in San Francisco, that's still an expense few can justify even if they could afford it. We had structural plywood sheathing installed in our garage, and the typical job is around $10k. The pre-existing sheathing was installed by [presumably] a fly-by-night contractor shortly after the 1989 earthquake. Fortunately I noticed that it wasn't installed correctly and used the wrong materials, and so it was basically useless. But given that the garage door, garage side entrance, and entryway make up greater than 80% of the front wall of our first story, that we have a big window and door on the back wall, there's not much room for sheathing (properly installed or not) to control movement along that axis. The house is now very unlikely to collapse into the street, but we're still lucky to be sandwiched between two other houses. Fortunately, our neighbor on the corner had his foundation rebuilt and a third structural wall installed. I should probably be remunerating him somehow.

omegaworks 10y ago

...And allowing them to pass on 100% of the cost to their renters.

vonmoltke 10y ago
So, you think landlords should operate at a loss for the benefit of their tenants?
- thebooktocome 10y ago
  On the other hand, how fast does an empty unit depreciate in value?
- 205guy 10y ago
  So you think that capital investments (in this case property) should have zero risk, in other words guaranteed returns?
  - alasdair_ 10y ago
    Obviously not. If the price is too high, people will not pay it.
  - vonmoltke 10y ago
    I didn't say anything about zero risk. As the sibling comment indicates, if the cost is too high tenants will refuse to pay it by not renting the place. How long it takes the landlord to recoup the costs will depend on the local market for rentals.
- omegaworks 10y ago
  Not at all. I do, however, feel there should be some incentive for him to shop around for a good price.
  - tomcam 10y ago
    We call that "the profit motive"
  - vonmoltke 10y ago
    Landlords may be the only group outside of government who is notorious for always going with the lowest bidder for jobs. A landlord who doesn't shop around for everything isn't going to be in the real estate business for very long.
fennecfoxen 10y ago
The fact that they're not able to pass 100% of the cost of whatever capital improvements they feel like on to their renters is part of a massive wealth transfer from landlords to long-established tenants. In other circumstances I'd accuse that of deterring investment and being a contributor to the terrible housing situation in the Bay Area in general, but honestly, the zoning / planning-permit situation is the first limiting factor.
- irq11 10y ago
  Instead of "massive wealth transfer", I think you meant to write "slight dent in disgustingly fat profit margins", because - just based on aggregate metrics - most landlords are making a stone-cold killing in this market. Indeed, let's all shed a tear for the SF landlord. I don't know how those poor folks can stay in business when property taxes are capped and median rent rises at ten times the rate of inflation!
  - discardorama 10y ago
    Clearly, you have not heard of "rent control". I know people paying $1200/month for a 2BR in the heart of the City. I even met a guy who was paying $350 for a 1BR in Nob Hill, not far from Grace Cathedral. About 72% of SF's units are under rent control. So not all landlords are making "fat profit margins".
  - fennecfoxen 10y ago
    Individual landlords don't see (real) rent increases for apartments are all subject to rent control. They only get an incremental adjustment for inflation. If a landlord owns an apartment but it is occupied by a tenant under rent control, it doesn't matter if the property is "worth" 10x as much. His rent collected hasn't gone up, and he can't sell it for 10x as much because that tenant has very strong legal protections around his use of the property at its price. In that case, 90% of the property's annual returns is being enjoyed by the tenant for as long as he stays there. (He may be able to realize a gain after the tenant moves away or dies, but he's still lost out on the decades of rent which he would have been able to get at market rates.) Considering that any landlord buying a property will certainly be on the hook for the downside in a property if the housing market crashed, and you'll see that this isn't the greatest. (BUT THE HOUSING MARKET ONLY GOES UP AND WILL NEVER CRASH hahahahahaha yeah right). Anyway. In general one needn't shed a tear for landlords and capitalists of their ilk for failure to make a profit: the money is its own reward. But we do need to respect the money (because that is the reward), the precise behaviors we are incentivizing, and the impact of political risk which we are inflict upon the people we might want to spend money investing in the region. For instance: making things like this risky means that risk-tolerant entities are likely to be involved (which means the rich guys, speculators and businesses that San Francisco loves, not individual homeowners). And the price of the landlord assuming any political risk will find itself baked into the price of any new rental property. But as I was saying: it's kinda moot from a median-apartment-price perspective if nothing new gets built anyway for other reasons.