5 ms·

A really interesting character, it's easy to assume the trope of him being a superficial virtuosic performer / rockstar but that is to miss the man who was deep

by yomly 10y ago

A really interesting character, it's easy to assume the trope of him being a superficial virtuosic performer / rockstar but that is to miss the man who was deeply committed to music. He would regularly champion Chopin's music and went so far as to write a biography of chopin himself. He was also a huge proponent of Beethoven's works and did a great deal to spread them through Europe. As stated in the article, he made a departure from his more showy pieces in his later life, and the set which I have always been a fan of for demonstrating this are his "L'années de pèlerinage" - Years of Pilgrimage. The Brendel recordings are a good place to start.

jksmith 10y ago
What's wrong with being a rock star? Article wreaks a bit from being haughty.
- ktRolster 10y ago
  There's nothing wrong with it, but often they are famous because of their personality, and have little actual skill, including needing auto-tune or even lip-syncing performances. The skill needed to be a rock-star is orthogonal to the skill needed to make beautiful music, and that is why those skills are worth considering separately.
  - girvo 10y ago
    > but often they are famous because of their personality, and have little actual skill, including needing auto-tune or even lip-syncing performances. So, we're being haughty then. Because that's... painting in broad strokes, to say the least.
    - ktRolster 10y ago
      >So, we're being haughty then Well good, you've reached the second level on the hierarchy of disagreement: https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Graham%27s_Hierarchy_of_Disagreement.svg https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Graham%27s_Hierarchy... Do you have something more substantial to say, or is that it?
  - rimantas 10y ago
    For some reason I associate autotune and lip-sync with pop music but not rock.
    - ktRolster 10y ago
      If you like rock and want to feel depressed, check out the current billboard top 10 in the rock category. The golden age of rock was definitely before the advent of auto-tune. (Though even the Beatles could have benefited from being more in tune). http://www.billboard.com/charts/rock-songs http://www.billboard.com/charts/rock-songs
- yomly 10y ago
  There's absolutely nothing wrong with being a rockstar, some people enjoy fame, others don't. Chopin and Schubert were comparatively reticent as composers, for example. The connotation within the space is that the rockstar is not a serious figure. In Liszt's case, was he more about wowing stages with his own technical virtuosity than crafting tasteful music? This is a characterisation attached to him and it implies selfish motivations for his composing (which is fine, regardless, people are free to lead whatever life they choose). I'm saying that even if Liszt did lead a rockstar life, he should still be taken seriously. Mozart does not get the same degree of scrutiny but also led a fairly rockstar lifestyle...
antognini 10y ago
His very late pieces are very interesting. His piece "Nuages Gris" is often cited as being the first impressionistic piece and his piece "Bagatelle sans Tonalité" presaged Schoenberg's move towards atonality a few decades later. He also received the four minor orders in the Roman Catholic Church (these are porter, lector, exorcist, and acolyte, and are one rank below a subdeacon).
visarga 10y ago
> it's easy to assume the trope of him being a superficial virtuosic performer When you listen to his compositions it becomes impossible to assume that: "Piano Sonata in B minor" - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VfHgLyuO0hY https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VfHgLyuO0hY This is no composition by just a virtuosic performer. It has huge emotional depth. It's a spiritual meditation.
vixen99 10y ago
Indeed, superficial musicians don't a) have at least 700 compositions to their credit (according to 1950 Groves encyclopedia) and b) from the age of 36 onwards either perform for free or give the proceeds to charity.

by yomly 10y ago

jksmith 10y ago

What's wrong with being a rock star? Article wreaks a bit from being haughty.

ktRolster 10y ago
There's nothing wrong with it, but often they are famous because of their personality, and have little actual skill, including needing auto-tune or even lip-syncing performances. The skill needed to be a rock-star is orthogonal to the skill needed to make beautiful music, and that is why those skills are worth considering separately.
- girvo 10y ago
  > but often they are famous because of their personality, and have little actual skill, including needing auto-tune or even lip-syncing performances. So, we're being haughty then. Because that's... painting in broad strokes, to say the least.
  - ktRolster 10y ago
    >So, we're being haughty then Well good, you've reached the second level on the hierarchy of disagreement: https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Graham%27s_Hierarchy_of_Disagreement.svg https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Graham%27s_Hierarchy... Do you have something more substantial to say, or is that it?
- rimantas 10y ago
  For some reason I associate autotune and lip-sync with pop music but not rock.
  - ktRolster 10y ago
    If you like rock and want to feel depressed, check out the current billboard top 10 in the rock category. The golden age of rock was definitely before the advent of auto-tune. (Though even the Beatles could have benefited from being more in tune). http://www.billboard.com/charts/rock-songs http://www.billboard.com/charts/rock-songs
yomly 10y ago
There's absolutely nothing wrong with being a rockstar, some people enjoy fame, others don't. Chopin and Schubert were comparatively reticent as composers, for example. The connotation within the space is that the rockstar is not a serious figure. In Liszt's case, was he more about wowing stages with his own technical virtuosity than crafting tasteful music? This is a characterisation attached to him and it implies selfish motivations for his composing (which is fine, regardless, people are free to lead whatever life they choose). I'm saying that even if Liszt did lead a rockstar life, he should still be taken seriously. Mozart does not get the same degree of scrutiny but also led a fairly rockstar lifestyle...

antognini 10y ago

His very late pieces are very interesting. His piece "Nuages Gris" is often cited as being the first impressionistic piece and his piece "Bagatelle sans Tonalité" presaged Schoenberg's move towards atonality a few decades later. He also received the four minor orders in the Roman Catholic Church (these are porter, lector, exorcist, and acolyte, and are one rank below a subdeacon).

visarga 10y ago

> it's easy to assume the trope of him being a superficial virtuosic performer When you listen to his compositions it becomes impossible to assume that: "Piano Sonata in B minor" - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VfHgLyuO0hY https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VfHgLyuO0hY This is no composition by just a virtuosic performer. It has huge emotional depth. It's a spiritual meditation.

vixen99 10y ago

Indeed, superficial musicians don't a) have at least 700 compositions to their credit (according to 1950 Groves encyclopedia) and b) from the age of 36 onwards either perform for free or give the proceeds to charity.