4 ms·

America has a lot of guns, guns are ingrained in it's culture, and despite of having that many guns, it isn't a third world hell hole. Talking about gun bans i

America has a lot of guns, guns are ingrained in it's culture, and despite of having that many guns, it isn't a third world hell hole. Talking about gun bans in other countries is like trying to convince Australia to ban Kangaroos based on how it worked in America. The situation hasn't changed since the times of founding fathers. In Federalist Paper #46, James Madison was bragging about how because of American gun ownership, totalitarian governments can never take over America, like they can do in Europe. [Reformatted] >> Besides the advantage of being armed, which the Americans possess over the people of almost every other nation, the existence of subordinate governments, to which the people are attached, and by which the militia officers are appointed, forms a barrier against the enterprises of ambition, more insurmountable than any which a simple government of any form can admit of. << >> Notwithstanding the military establishments in the several kingdoms of Europe, which are carried as far as the public resources will bear, the governments are afraid to trust the people with arms. And it is not certain, that with this aid alone they would not be able to shake off their yokes.<< >> But were the people to possess the additional advantages of local governments chosen by themselves, who could collect the national will and direct the national force, and of officers appointed out of the militia, by these governments, and attached both to them and to the militia, it may be affirmed with the greatest assurance, that the throne of every tyranny in Europe would be speedily overturned in spite of the legions which surround it. << >> Let us not insult the free and gallant citizens of America with the suspicion, that they would be less able to defend the rights of which they would be in actual possession, than the debased subjects of arbitrary power would be to rescue theirs from the hands of their oppressors. Let us rather no longer insult them with the supposition that they can ever reduce themselves to the necessity of making the experiment, by a blind and tame submission to the long train of insidious measures which must precede and produce it. << http://www.constitution.org/fed/federa46.htm http://www.constitution.org/fed/federa46.htm

serge2k 10y ago
Do you really think people in Australia are afraid of totalitarianism? Do you really guns are going to help, when the real threat is government overreach and the inaction of the populace? Keep electing "pro 2nd amendment" politicians who also happen to vote for the patriot act and support NSA spying.
- splintercell 10y ago
  > Do you really guns are going to help, when the real threat is government overreach and the inaction of the populace? Keep electing "pro 2nd amendment" politicians who also happen to vote for the patriot act and support NSA spying. < So your logic is, "because politicians have passed Patriot Act and govt spies through NSA, give up your gun rights"?? I see similar argument being made by other people, "there is no way you will be able to fight a totalitarian government with your guns", (even if it were true) the point is that we should give up our guns because we are already doomed? Isn't that even more reason to fight for gun rights? Quoting again from Federalist Papers #46, where James Madison responds to the argument similar to being made by you (you really should read it, because I am skipping a lot of meat): >>Let a regular army, fully equal to the resources of the country, be formed; and let it be entirely at the devotion of the federal government; still it would not be going too far to say, that the State governments, with the people on their side, would be able to repel the danger. The highest number to which, according to the best computation, a standing army can be carried in any country, does not exceed 1/100th part of the whole number of souls; or one 1/25th part of the number able to bear arms.<< >> This proportion would not yield, in the United States, an army of more than 25 or 30 thousand men. To these would be opposed a militia amounting to near half a million of citizens with arms in their hands, officered by men chosen from among themselves, fighting for their common liberties, and united and conducted by governments possessing their affections and confidence. << >> It may well be doubted, whether a militia thus circumstanced could ever be conquered by such a proportion of regular troops. Those who are best acquainted with the last successful resistance of this country against the British arms, will be most inclined to deny the possibility of it. <<
  - serge2k 10y ago
    > So your logic is, "because politicians have passed Patriot Act and govt spies through NSA, give up your gun rights"?? No, my logic is that it's a problem to give up your other rights but throw a fit about any mention of gun control because "MAH GUNS"! My argument is also that it's incredible paranoia to talk about how your guns are going to keep you safe from your government. Again, do you really think Australians are having trouble sleeping at night because they are afraid they might wake up and "Oh, military rule. Guess we'll just go with that then".

serge2k 10y ago

Do you really think people in Australia are afraid of totalitarianism? Do you really guns are going to help, when the real threat is government overreach and the inaction of the populace? Keep electing "pro 2nd amendment" politicians who also happen to vote for the patriot act and support NSA spying.

splintercell 10y ago
> Do you really guns are going to help, when the real threat is government overreach and the inaction of the populace? Keep electing "pro 2nd amendment" politicians who also happen to vote for the patriot act and support NSA spying. < So your logic is, "because politicians have passed Patriot Act and govt spies through NSA, give up your gun rights"?? I see similar argument being made by other people, "there is no way you will be able to fight a totalitarian government with your guns", (even if it were true) the point is that we should give up our guns because we are already doomed? Isn't that even more reason to fight for gun rights? Quoting again from Federalist Papers #46, where James Madison responds to the argument similar to being made by you (you really should read it, because I am skipping a lot of meat): >>Let a regular army, fully equal to the resources of the country, be formed; and let it be entirely at the devotion of the federal government; still it would not be going too far to say, that the State governments, with the people on their side, would be able to repel the danger. The highest number to which, according to the best computation, a standing army can be carried in any country, does not exceed 1/100th part of the whole number of souls; or one 1/25th part of the number able to bear arms.<< >> This proportion would not yield, in the United States, an army of more than 25 or 30 thousand men. To these would be opposed a militia amounting to near half a million of citizens with arms in their hands, officered by men chosen from among themselves, fighting for their common liberties, and united and conducted by governments possessing their affections and confidence. << >> It may well be doubted, whether a militia thus circumstanced could ever be conquered by such a proportion of regular troops. Those who are best acquainted with the last successful resistance of this country against the British arms, will be most inclined to deny the possibility of it. <<
- serge2k 10y ago
  > So your logic is, "because politicians have passed Patriot Act and govt spies through NSA, give up your gun rights"?? No, my logic is that it's a problem to give up your other rights but throw a fit about any mention of gun control because "MAH GUNS"! My argument is also that it's incredible paranoia to talk about how your guns are going to keep you safe from your government. Again, do you really think Australians are having trouble sleeping at night because they are afraid they might wake up and "Oh, military rule. Guess we'll just go with that then".