4 ms·

Let me propose an alternative way of looking at it, that 30KE for six months of possible part time funding of new projects is almost perfectly wrong financially

by VLM 10y ago

Let me propose an alternative way of looking at it, that 30KE for six months of possible part time funding of new projects is almost perfectly wrong financially. Early in a project you want experienced people putting in lots of time (full time) on architecture and initial design and MVP. Later on, lower paid programmers can evolve the project part time to add javascript flavor of the month. As an alternative financial model, how about 25KE (or more) for two months for expert level programmers to bootstrap a new project full time only, or 60KE for a year to evolve features and squash bugs on an existing project perhaps part time. Or if politics and PR make ongoing support impossible, then only do the bootstrap phase. Its possible programmer salaries in .de are much lower than I think they are. However they can't too much lower, someone there is buying all those BMWs and VWs.

tomchristie 10y ago
I think it fits well if you expect most projects to be a single engineer working full-time. An equivalent of up to €60k/yr full-time is a pretty good salary by most folks standards, even if it's not quite up there with top-tier engineering levels. (I'd probably suggest the funding was getting poor value-for-money if it was)
bjourne 10y ago
It's the opposite. Any decent programmer can make a nicely architectured MVP. It is maintaining the code, refactoring it and implementing new feature requests not envisioned by the original programmers that takes real skill. Stupid analogy time: Building a shiny, new house; easy. Retrofitting a 300 year old house with 1000gb ethernet wiring everywhere, while keeping the original character of the house and with minimal disruption to its inhabitants; HARD.
- user5994461 10y ago
  Simply not true when the design is not trivial. I'm giving interviews with system design, I'd say that the majority of programmers who are decent cannot actually architecture anything well enough. And it doesn't matter if they're given more time, they don't have the training/experience for it. (They'll only learn the impact of their decisions later, eventually painfully). On the other hand, they may be able to develop it if handed and led through a proper architecture.
- jwebb99 10y ago
  > Stupid analogy time: Building a shiny, new house; easy. Retrofitting a 300 year old house with 1000gb ethernet wiring everywhere, while keeping the original character of the house and with minimal disruption to its inhabitants; HARD. Actually, I thought it was pretty apt.
qznc 10y ago
A freshly graduated CS student can expect around 40k€/y in Germany, so 60k€/y is not bad. With a PhD you can expect more than 60k€/y, but it might ok for some people. I believe this is attractive for entrepreneurial graduates, because they probably already have the self-employed paperwork down. This grant might then become a startup later. I guess you have to release the product from this grant, but being the only copyright holder, you can continue to develop it further in a proprietary fashion.

by VLM 10y ago

tomchristie 10y ago

I think it fits well if you expect most projects to be a single engineer working full-time. An equivalent of up to €60k/yr full-time is a pretty good salary by most folks standards, even if it's not quite up there with top-tier engineering levels. (I'd probably suggest the funding was getting poor value-for-money if it was)

bjourne 10y ago

It's the opposite. Any decent programmer can make a nicely architectured MVP. It is maintaining the code, refactoring it and implementing new feature requests not envisioned by the original programmers that takes real skill. Stupid analogy time: Building a shiny, new house; easy. Retrofitting a 300 year old house with 1000gb ethernet wiring everywhere, while keeping the original character of the house and with minimal disruption to its inhabitants; HARD.

user5994461 10y ago
Simply not true when the design is not trivial. I'm giving interviews with system design, I'd say that the majority of programmers who are decent cannot actually architecture anything well enough. And it doesn't matter if they're given more time, they don't have the training/experience for it. (They'll only learn the impact of their decisions later, eventually painfully). On the other hand, they may be able to develop it if handed and led through a proper architecture.
jwebb99 10y ago
> Stupid analogy time: Building a shiny, new house; easy. Retrofitting a 300 year old house with 1000gb ethernet wiring everywhere, while keeping the original character of the house and with minimal disruption to its inhabitants; HARD. Actually, I thought it was pretty apt.

qznc 10y ago

A freshly graduated CS student can expect around 40k€/y in Germany, so 60k€/y is not bad. With a PhD you can expect more than 60k€/y, but it might ok for some people. I believe this is attractive for entrepreneurial graduates, because they probably already have the self-employed paperwork down. This grant might then become a startup later. I guess you have to release the product from this grant, but being the only copyright holder, you can continue to develop it further in a proprietary fashion.