4 ms·

Ask HN: DSL to a T1, help with the speeds

2 points by jason_slack 10y ago

I live in a very rural area where I had to persuade Verizon to get me DSL years ago. My wife and I both work at home and pound on this connection all day every day. We also have a few servers running. I cannot get cable internet or Fios. I get around 1.1mbps, often less, early in the morning when nobody else in my area is on yet I get like 2.8 mbps. Verizon Enterprise agreed that they could run me a T1. They wanted to start me out at 10 mbps but that is about $764 a month and $1,200 in startup/equipment costs. I have asked them about 1.5 mbps or 3 mbps. But, if I go with 1.5, it isn't really any faster than my DSL, correct? Except that I may get that all the time since it would only be our traffic. It would also be probably double or slightly more than my $80 DSL bill. Am I thinking about this correctly or am I making a mistake in my thinking? Edit: We are both geeks. We code, web site stuff too, have tool chains to update, etc, etc.

Down_n_Out 10y ago
Just a quick question, have you thought about satellite Internet services? Or is that not feasible/possible/...?
- jason_slack 10y ago
  We can get DISH or DirectTV internet, but they limit you to 10GB a month and my wife surpasses that alone with her work. The cost is more expensive than our DSL for that 10gb.
  - Down_n_Out 10y ago
    Well, not sure if there's other options, I've seen some that offer 25Gb for something around $130/month but that was a while ago and I don't know if they're available in your region. As for the 1.5mbps, if that is really dedicated to you and only you then it "can" be faster than your current DSL. The question remains if it warrants the price difference for the marginal difference it might bring.
    - jason_slack 10y ago
      25gb for $130? I see cable internet for that speed, but not T1 for that speed.
      - Down_n_Out 10y ago
        Sorry, that was 25Gb/month in data, not speed. I'm sure there's more choice out there, I'm not very familiar with the US market on satellite Internet.
doctorshady 10y ago
Have you talked to any local competitive phone companies (Broadview Networks, Windstream Business, etc) about T1 quotes? Thy're never cheap, but you could probably get it down to the $300-$500/mo range. I suppose one thing you could do is look into some sort of on the fly compression algorithm incorporated into a proxy to make things a little more livable. A lot of modems for satellite providers actually do this along with caching by default.
- jason_slack 10y ago
  I have called everyone that I can think of and nobody services this area except Verizon. Any idea the name of some of these proxy's so I can look them up. We already run pfsense front ending everything, but I don't know if pfsense has anything built in to help with the proxy'ing. It is probably a separate box we would need to stand up.
  - lightlyused 10y ago
    You can run squid on pfsense. Pfsense is great.
    - jason_slack 10y ago
      Thanks. I'll check that out.
PaulHoule 10y ago
The big difference technically between DSL and T1 is that a T1 has amplifiers/signal conditioners every 6000ft or so whereas DSL uses a highly complex coding scheme to extend the range. T carrier services are expensive as hell because of the need to install so many amps.
brudgers 10y ago
What about 3G/4G cellular via tethering a phone? That's all I use when I'm away from my home interent. + $764/month will buy a lot of data exceeding that allocated with a standard plan. + $764/month makes multiple accounts spread across different carriers practical to provide redundant connections. + Even if there's only one good carrier in your area, resellers mean one can have multiple binding contracts for data service from that single carrier without hitting that carrier's terms and conditions for their direct sale policies. The problem that T1 is really meant to solve is providing a block of 24 dedicated voice channels for POTS [plain old telephone service]. Developed in 1962, it's not really a fat pipe by modern standards. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/T-carrier https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/T-carrier Indeed, that's why DSL can offer similar speed over a single twisted pair. Good luck.
lightlyused 10y ago
Just switched a client from a verizon t1 (really an att t1, you just can't escape them) to a verizon 10mbs dedicated line. Asked for fiber, but basically got a dedicated dsl line from the office to the co via windstream. Also has a verizon wireless link for backup. This client has had a T1 for a number of years it was great running 5 remote desktops and voip services. The use of google maps to do some work really killed the bandwidth however. Unless you are doing serious upstream stuff, I'd stick with the DSL and try and get a caching web proxy to reduced your bandwidth usage.

2 points by jason_slack 10y ago

Down_n_Out 10y ago

Just a quick question, have you thought about satellite Internet services? Or is that not feasible/possible/...?

jason_slack 10y ago
We can get DISH or DirectTV internet, but they limit you to 10GB a month and my wife surpasses that alone with her work. The cost is more expensive than our DSL for that 10gb.
- Down_n_Out 10y ago
  Well, not sure if there's other options, I've seen some that offer 25Gb for something around $130/month but that was a while ago and I don't know if they're available in your region. As for the 1.5mbps, if that is really dedicated to you and only you then it "can" be faster than your current DSL. The question remains if it warrants the price difference for the marginal difference it might bring.
  - jason_slack 10y ago
    25gb for $130? I see cable internet for that speed, but not T1 for that speed.
    - Down_n_Out 10y ago
      Sorry, that was 25Gb/month in data, not speed. I'm sure there's more choice out there, I'm not very familiar with the US market on satellite Internet.

doctorshady 10y ago

Have you talked to any local competitive phone companies (Broadview Networks, Windstream Business, etc) about T1 quotes? Thy're never cheap, but you could probably get it down to the $300-$500/mo range. I suppose one thing you could do is look into some sort of on the fly compression algorithm incorporated into a proxy to make things a little more livable. A lot of modems for satellite providers actually do this along with caching by default.

jason_slack 10y ago
I have called everyone that I can think of and nobody services this area except Verizon. Any idea the name of some of these proxy's so I can look them up. We already run pfsense front ending everything, but I don't know if pfsense has anything built in to help with the proxy'ing. It is probably a separate box we would need to stand up.
- lightlyused 10y ago
  You can run squid on pfsense. Pfsense is great.
  - jason_slack 10y ago
    Thanks. I'll check that out.

PaulHoule 10y ago

The big difference technically between DSL and T1 is that a T1 has amplifiers/signal conditioners every 6000ft or so whereas DSL uses a highly complex coding scheme to extend the range. T carrier services are expensive as hell because of the need to install so many amps.

brudgers 10y ago

What about 3G/4G cellular via tethering a phone? That's all I use when I'm away from my home interent. + $764/month will buy a lot of data exceeding that allocated with a standard plan. + $764/month makes multiple accounts spread across different carriers practical to provide redundant connections. + Even if there's only one good carrier in your area, resellers mean one can have multiple binding contracts for data service from that single carrier without hitting that carrier's terms and conditions for their direct sale policies. The problem that T1 is really meant to solve is providing a block of 24 dedicated voice channels for POTS [plain old telephone service]. Developed in 1962, it's not really a fat pipe by modern standards. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/T-carrier https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/T-carrier Indeed, that's why DSL can offer similar speed over a single twisted pair. Good luck.

lightlyused 10y ago

Just switched a client from a verizon t1 (really an att t1, you just can't escape them) to a verizon 10mbs dedicated line. Asked for fiber, but basically got a dedicated dsl line from the office to the co via windstream. Also has a verizon wireless link for backup. This client has had a T1 for a number of years it was great running 5 remote desktops and voip services. The use of google maps to do some work really killed the bandwidth however. Unless you are doing serious upstream stuff, I'd stick with the DSL and try and get a caching web proxy to reduced your bandwidth usage.