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Dear god. More anti-Russian fear mongering and propaganda. a) There's no proof Russia was behind the DNC hacks b) Even if they were, why does no one care abo

by Mikeb85 10y ago

Dear god. More anti-Russian fear mongering and propaganda. a) There's no proof Russia was behind the DNC hacks b) Even if they were, why does no one care about the corruption that was uncovered? Don't shoot the messenger... c) Does no one remember the whole Snowden/NSA thing? Every state hacks every other state, the US does it more than most, other countries don't whine nearly as much. Recent weeks have also shattered the idea of the US 'free media'. So much propaganda Stalin would be proud...

deleted 10y ago
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deleted 10y ago
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daxorid 10y ago
Well, SwiftOnSecurity made a snarky macaroni video and the grugq buys the attribution without evidence, so the infosec groupthink must be correct.
craigvn 10y ago
Everyone know's that everyone hacks, the problem is one of the Presidential candidates is encouraging hacks on the country he is running for President of.
- imron 10y ago
  Ok, I'm not a Trump supporter, but if you look at what Trump said, he was talking about Hillary's deleted emails. You know, the ones that were deleted years ago. He was not asking Russia to hack anything, he was asking that if the Russians had already got access to those emails (due to their own hacking) then they should provide them to the FBI. It's a subtle but important difference. It's also worth noting that this is well within the scope of a treaty [0] between the US and Russia (signed by none other than Bill Clinton) covering mutual legal assistance in criminal matters (which this surely is). If you believe that Trump is encouraging Russia to hack various people in order to influence the US election, you have probably been deliberately misled by various media outlets. I say deliberately because if you look at the media outlets driving this story, it's the same ones the DNCleaks show are in direct collusion with the DNC. The DNCleaks also contain information on a strategy that the DNC would try to distract the public from Hillary's email scandal if anything was released from that by trying to put the blame on Russia trying to influence the election (playing to the general public's confirmation bias that Trump and Putin are buddy-buddy). The thing is though, that if there was enough evidence of wrongdoing in those deleted emails that they could influence the outcome of the US election, then Hillary Clinton probably shouldn't be running for president in the first place. Here's a thought experiment: Imagine if the deleted emails contain incriminating content that would cause Hillary to lose the election. Imagine Russia hacked Hillary's server and got access to them. Imagine if they don't release them. Imagine if Hillary becomes president. Congratulations, now Russia has something they can use to blackmail the president of the United States. Either there's nothing of importance in the emails and Russia providing them (assuming they even had them) would have no influence on the election, or there is something of importance in them and that disqualifies Hillary as a suitable candidate. Either way, none of that is on Trump. 0: https://www.congress.gov/treaty-document/106th-congress/22 https://www.congress.gov/treaty-document/106th-congress/22
  - craigvn 10y ago
    Your overthinking what was just a stupid off the cuff remark by Trump. That's the problem, he says stupid things without thinking. You better believe there is a 1000 script kiddies in Russia trying to break into the US government now.
    - xlm1717 10y ago
      And there were, what, only 900 before?
hourislate 10y ago
A poor attempt at obfuscation. I suppose you would also say that Russia had nothing to do with with Litvinenko's murder, Nemtsov's murder, Shooting down MH-17, having no soldiers in Eastern Ukraine, etc. And concerning your comment about Stalin (Russians always did adore their Tyrants), he would have been very proud today. Over 50 % of Russians have embraced him. http://www.newsweek.com/putin-russia-economy-communist-party-485630 http://www.newsweek.com/putin-russia-economy-communist-party... > For the first time this year, a majority of Russians (52 percent) indicated in an annual opinion poll that they considered Stalin’s bloody rule “probably” or “definitely” a positive thing.
- ausvisaissues 10y ago
  > A poor attempt at obfuscation. Just because Russia is guilty of some things, does not mean that they are automatically guilty of others. > nothing to do with with Litvinenko's murder Probably the Russian government was involved. > Nemtsov's murder, Nothing has been proven, it is just pure speculation. I really don't think the government benefited by killing him on red square -- it created a huge embarrassment. > Shooting down MH-17, Russia may have provided assistance to rebels (e.g. in the form of air defense). But there is no proof at all that a civilian plane was shot down on purpose on orders of the Russian government. In most probability it is a tragic accident (as happened earlier: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Siberia_Airlines_Flight_1812 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Siberia_Airlines_Flight_1812). These accidents are bound to happen when civilian planes fly over warzones. > comment about Stalin (Russians always did adore their Tyrants), Russians have a complex and tragic history. It is not that easy to reject all of your history (the good and the bad). I wonder if you are equally vocal about neighbouring countries who still adore their Nazi independence fighters...
  - hourislate 10y ago
    Again, a poor effort to deceive rather than inform. Making excuses for evil and murder and then adding your customary Whataboutism. This isn't Reddit. The folks around here are quite Intelligent.
- Mikeb85 10y ago
cheriot 10y ago
What was the corruption uncovered? From the little I've read it sounds like staffers wanted to lash out at the Bernie campaign for its "unauthorized access" and more senior officials told them to stay out of the nomination battle.
mc32 10y ago
While yes there is a lot of redirection from the Denms side. There is no comparison btwn the grip united Russia has on Russian media and the phenomenon in the US where media elites try to bring their own opinions to bear. There is no place with Objective Media when it comes to politics. So while it seems clear many media do show their hand in wanting to prevent a Trump from winning, it's not at the DNC's behest.
justicezyx 10y ago
There is a huge perception bias systematically established by us government and enterprises. I think there is a legitimate to think or behave in that way from USA's perspective, due to the long history between the 2 nations. So it is necessary for anyone in discussion to keep in mind that there is always a higher chance that the perception on Russia is worse than it really is.

by Mikeb85 10y ago

deleted 10y ago

[deleted]

deleted 10y ago

[deleted]

daxorid 10y ago

Well, SwiftOnSecurity made a snarky macaroni video and the grugq buys the attribution without evidence, so the infosec groupthink must be correct.

craigvn 10y ago

Everyone know's that everyone hacks, the problem is one of the Presidential candidates is encouraging hacks on the country he is running for President of.

imron 10y ago
Ok, I'm not a Trump supporter, but if you look at what Trump said, he was talking about Hillary's deleted emails. You know, the ones that were deleted years ago. He was not asking Russia to hack anything, he was asking that if the Russians had already got access to those emails (due to their own hacking) then they should provide them to the FBI. It's a subtle but important difference. It's also worth noting that this is well within the scope of a treaty [0] between the US and Russia (signed by none other than Bill Clinton) covering mutual legal assistance in criminal matters (which this surely is). If you believe that Trump is encouraging Russia to hack various people in order to influence the US election, you have probably been deliberately misled by various media outlets. I say deliberately because if you look at the media outlets driving this story, it's the same ones the DNCleaks show are in direct collusion with the DNC. The DNCleaks also contain information on a strategy that the DNC would try to distract the public from Hillary's email scandal if anything was released from that by trying to put the blame on Russia trying to influence the election (playing to the general public's confirmation bias that Trump and Putin are buddy-buddy). The thing is though, that if there was enough evidence of wrongdoing in those deleted emails that they could influence the outcome of the US election, then Hillary Clinton probably shouldn't be running for president in the first place. Here's a thought experiment: Imagine if the deleted emails contain incriminating content that would cause Hillary to lose the election. Imagine Russia hacked Hillary's server and got access to them. Imagine if they don't release them. Imagine if Hillary becomes president. Congratulations, now Russia has something they can use to blackmail the president of the United States. Either there's nothing of importance in the emails and Russia providing them (assuming they even had them) would have no influence on the election, or there is something of importance in them and that disqualifies Hillary as a suitable candidate. Either way, none of that is on Trump. 0: https://www.congress.gov/treaty-document/106th-congress/22 https://www.congress.gov/treaty-document/106th-congress/22
- craigvn 10y ago
  Your overthinking what was just a stupid off the cuff remark by Trump. That's the problem, he says stupid things without thinking. You better believe there is a 1000 script kiddies in Russia trying to break into the US government now.
  - xlm1717 10y ago
    And there were, what, only 900 before?

hourislate 10y ago

A poor attempt at obfuscation. I suppose you would also say that Russia had nothing to do with with Litvinenko's murder, Nemtsov's murder, Shooting down MH-17, having no soldiers in Eastern Ukraine, etc. And concerning your comment about Stalin (Russians always did adore their Tyrants), he would have been very proud today. Over 50 % of Russians have embraced him. http://www.newsweek.com/putin-russia-economy-communist-party-485630 http://www.newsweek.com/putin-russia-economy-communist-party... > For the first time this year, a majority of Russians (52 percent) indicated in an annual opinion poll that they considered Stalin’s bloody rule “probably” or “definitely” a positive thing.

ausvisaissues 10y ago
> A poor attempt at obfuscation. Just because Russia is guilty of some things, does not mean that they are automatically guilty of others. > nothing to do with with Litvinenko's murder Probably the Russian government was involved. > Nemtsov's murder, Nothing has been proven, it is just pure speculation. I really don't think the government benefited by killing him on red square -- it created a huge embarrassment. > Shooting down MH-17, Russia may have provided assistance to rebels (e.g. in the form of air defense). But there is no proof at all that a civilian plane was shot down on purpose on orders of the Russian government. In most probability it is a tragic accident (as happened earlier: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Siberia_Airlines_Flight_1812 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Siberia_Airlines_Flight_1812). These accidents are bound to happen when civilian planes fly over warzones. > comment about Stalin (Russians always did adore their Tyrants), Russians have a complex and tragic history. It is not that easy to reject all of your history (the good and the bad). I wonder if you are equally vocal about neighbouring countries who still adore their Nazi independence fighters...
- hourislate 10y ago
  Again, a poor effort to deceive rather than inform. Making excuses for evil and murder and then adding your customary Whataboutism. This isn't Reddit. The folks around here are quite Intelligent.
Mikeb85 10y ago

cheriot 10y ago

What was the corruption uncovered? From the little I've read it sounds like staffers wanted to lash out at the Bernie campaign for its "unauthorized access" and more senior officials told them to stay out of the nomination battle.

mc32 10y ago

While yes there is a lot of redirection from the Denms side. There is no comparison btwn the grip united Russia has on Russian media and the phenomenon in the US where media elites try to bring their own opinions to bear. There is no place with Objective Media when it comes to politics. So while it seems clear many media do show their hand in wanting to prevent a Trump from winning, it's not at the DNC's behest.

justicezyx 10y ago

There is a huge perception bias systematically established by us government and enterprises. I think there is a legitimate to think or behave in that way from USA's perspective, due to the long history between the 2 nations. So it is necessary for anyone in discussion to keep in mind that there is always a higher chance that the perception on Russia is worse than it really is.