21 ms·

I don't get this idea that desktop Linux is challenging, not at all. I've been using a Linux box as my primary desktop since 1999, and as my sole desktop since

by wtbob 10y ago

I don't get this idea that desktop Linux is challenging, not at all. I've been using a Linux box as my primary desktop since 1999, and as my sole desktop since 2000. It's not challenging, it just works. I won't say that there are never challenges, but they are rare and — unlike Windows and macOS — if I search a little I'll find an answer and am able to bend the OS to my will.

Nadya 10y ago
I disagree entirely - as someone who has dual-booted w/ Linux since 2002. 1) Driver issues (becoming less of a problem as time goes on) but it used to be a headache even for tech-savvy people to get their drivers to "just work" and so help you god when you decided to update... 2) While a large majority of users need little less than a working internet browser - there is a large niche for gaming that has only recently started to be supported by developers on Linux distros - Steam only in recent years. Likewise for many professional niches - the software is developed for Windows/Mac and may or may not support Linux at all. 3) UX of many things is either missing or lackluster. This has made great strides in the past 5ish years but many things still rely on users having at least some knowledge about config files and knowing their way around a command prompt. At the least, RTFM. All are arcane black magic to many computer users. Not to mention, package what-nows? sudo? It isn't user-friendly in the least for the common user. It's powerful and "not too hard to Google a few things" for more tech-savvy users, but tech-savvy users aren't most users.
coldtea 10y ago
>I don't get this idea that desktop Linux is challenging, not at all. I've been using a Linux box as my primary desktop since 1999 Isn't that fact a huge tell-sign that perhaps you're not the kind of person for whom desktop Linux would be challenging? You speak of 2000, but historically even people like ESR, Linus Torvalds, JWZ etc have found Linux bad at usability and ease of installation. Of course people used to tinker to e.g. get 3D working, or with basic setups that don't need anything special driver-wise, won't notice. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qHGTs1NSB1s https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qHGTs1NSB1s http://news.oreilly.com/2008/07/linux-torvalds-on-linux-distri.html http://news.oreilly.com/2008/07/linux-torvalds-on-linux-dist... https://plus.google.com/115250422803614415116/posts/hMT5kW8LKJk https://plus.google.com/115250422803614415116/posts/hMT5kW8L... http://gensho.acc.umu.se/pub/debian-meetings/2014/debconf14/webm/QA_with_Linus_Torvalds.webm http://gensho.acc.umu.se/pub/debian-meetings/2014/debconf14/... http://www.catb.org/~esr/writings/cups-horror.html http://www.catb.org/~esr/writings/cups-horror.html https://www.jwz.org/blog/2005/06/that-was-in-fact-the-final-straw/ https://www.jwz.org/blog/2005/06/that-was-in-fact-the-final-... https://www.jwz.org/doc/linuxvideo.html https://www.jwz.org/doc/linuxvideo.html https://www.jwz.org/doc/linux.html https://www.jwz.org/doc/linux.html
- wtbob 10y ago
  > Isn't that fact a huge tell-sign that perhaps you're not the kind of person for whom desktop Linux would be challenging? Well, sure — but I didn't spring forth fully-formed from my father's forehead knowing how to use Linux. As a matter of fact, until I switched I was a Mac user. And FWIW both my liberal-arts brother and his liberal-arts wife are now using Linux. My sister-in-law discovered the command line within a week. I won't deny that there are things which are painful in Linux. But are they more common than painful things in Windows? I had to get a Windows machine to do some work on, and it's utterly terrible. I don't just mean the 'this doesn't work the way I'm used to' stuff: that's to be expected. I mean things like randomly prompting me for a smartcard PIN over and over again, when Linux would ask but once. I mean things like wanting to download OS updates as one large file, rather than many small files — which can mean that it's impossible to update the OS on a small disk. I've not used macOS enough in the last decade to really have a critique; every time I use it, I want to hurl the computer through a window, but I freely admit that may simply be down to unfamiliarity, which is no more a critique of macOS than it is of Linux. It is annoying that I can't use a tiling window manager, though.

by wtbob 10y ago

Nadya 10y ago

I disagree entirely - as someone who has dual-booted w/ Linux since 2002. 1) Driver issues (becoming less of a problem as time goes on) but it used to be a headache even for tech-savvy people to get their drivers to "just work" and so help you god when you decided to update... 2) While a large majority of users need little less than a working internet browser - there is a large niche for gaming that has only recently started to be supported by developers on Linux distros - Steam only in recent years. Likewise for many professional niches - the software is developed for Windows/Mac and may or may not support Linux at all. 3) UX of many things is either missing or lackluster. This has made great strides in the past 5ish years but many things still rely on users having at least some knowledge about config files and knowing their way around a command prompt. At the least, RTFM. All are arcane black magic to many computer users. Not to mention, package what-nows? sudo? It isn't user-friendly in the least for the common user. It's powerful and "not too hard to Google a few things" for more tech-savvy users, but tech-savvy users aren't most users.

coldtea 10y ago

>I don't get this idea that desktop Linux is challenging, not at all. I've been using a Linux box as my primary desktop since 1999 Isn't that fact a huge tell-sign that perhaps you're not the kind of person for whom desktop Linux would be challenging? You speak of 2000, but historically even people like ESR, Linus Torvalds, JWZ etc have found Linux bad at usability and ease of installation. Of course people used to tinker to e.g. get 3D working, or with basic setups that don't need anything special driver-wise, won't notice. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qHGTs1NSB1s https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qHGTs1NSB1s http://news.oreilly.com/2008/07/linux-torvalds-on-linux-distri.html http://news.oreilly.com/2008/07/linux-torvalds-on-linux-dist... https://plus.google.com/115250422803614415116/posts/hMT5kW8LKJk https://plus.google.com/115250422803614415116/posts/hMT5kW8L... http://gensho.acc.umu.se/pub/debian-meetings/2014/debconf14/webm/QA_with_Linus_Torvalds.webm http://gensho.acc.umu.se/pub/debian-meetings/2014/debconf14/... http://www.catb.org/~esr/writings/cups-horror.html http://www.catb.org/~esr/writings/cups-horror.html https://www.jwz.org/blog/2005/06/that-was-in-fact-the-final-straw/ https://www.jwz.org/blog/2005/06/that-was-in-fact-the-final-... https://www.jwz.org/doc/linuxvideo.html https://www.jwz.org/doc/linuxvideo.html https://www.jwz.org/doc/linux.html https://www.jwz.org/doc/linux.html

wtbob 10y ago
> Isn't that fact a huge tell-sign that perhaps you're not the kind of person for whom desktop Linux would be challenging? Well, sure — but I didn't spring forth fully-formed from my father's forehead knowing how to use Linux. As a matter of fact, until I switched I was a Mac user. And FWIW both my liberal-arts brother and his liberal-arts wife are now using Linux. My sister-in-law discovered the command line within a week. I won't deny that there are things which are painful in Linux. But are they more common than painful things in Windows? I had to get a Windows machine to do some work on, and it's utterly terrible. I don't just mean the 'this doesn't work the way I'm used to' stuff: that's to be expected. I mean things like randomly prompting me for a smartcard PIN over and over again, when Linux would ask but once. I mean things like wanting to download OS updates as one large file, rather than many small files — which can mean that it's impossible to update the OS on a small disk. I've not used macOS enough in the last decade to really have a critique; every time I use it, I want to hurl the computer through a window, but I freely admit that may simply be down to unfamiliarity, which is no more a critique of macOS than it is of Linux. It is annoying that I can't use a tiling window manager, though.