4 ms·

What's amazing to me is that people who bill themselves as "protectors of our liberty" have the audacity to blatantly subvert the democratic process that they c

by jcbeard 10y ago

What's amazing to me is that people who bill themselves as "protectors of our liberty" have the audacity to blatantly subvert the democratic process that they claim to hold dear. Changing the voting rules to remove the ability of people to vote, it's madness. I find it repugnant. We (the US) should guard the right to vote for all people by making voting days mandatory time off. We should also relax the voting ID laws. Fraud has never been an issue, NEVER.

awqrre 10y ago
Maybe also remove the need for voter's registration? In other words, everyone eligible to vote should be automatically registered...
- finid 10y ago
  Come to think of it, when you're issued a state ID/driver's licence, that should also be considered your registration to vote, provided you've reached voting age. That should eliminate another thing you need to register for.
  - jbapple 10y ago
    > Come to think of it, when you're issued a state ID/driver's licence, that should also be considered your registration to vote, provided you've reached voting age. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Voter_Registration_Act_of_1993#Voter_registration_of_driver.27s_license_applicants https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Voter_Registration_Ac... "Section 5 requires state motor vehicle offices to provide voter registration opportunities to anyone applying for a new or renewed driver's license or state identification card."
    - finid 10y ago
      Not the same thing. My idea is this: When you're get a state issued ID, no need to fill out another form. You ID may be tagged with something that lets officials know whether you're a citizen or not.
      - calvano915 10y ago
        And you shouldn't have to declare a party, or at least forced to.
    - codeddesign 10y ago
      In NC when you get an ID or a license it is mandatory for them to ask 2 questions: would you like to register to vote? Register for which party? Unfortunately how the party system works, you can't just merely auto register to vote...as we seen this year in the democratic primaries you must register as a democratic in order to vote democratic in their primary.
      - rhizome 10y ago
        That's a closed primary, but not all states have them.
  - Frondo 10y ago
    That is another thing Oregon just did, they call it the "motor voter" law. Do your business at the DMV, you're automatically registered to vote. Of course the usual suspects came out to decry how this'll let more poors and minorities vote, but then, don't they always come up with reasons why those people shouldn't vote?
CptJamesCook 10y ago
There is a tradition, thousands of years old, of the rich and powerful not wanting the common man to vote.
- finid 10y ago
  Yep, it's a continuation of slavery -> Jim Crow ->
SomeCallMeTim 10y ago
>voting days mandatory time off. Think about that for a minute. If it were a full mandatory day off, then basically no retail could possibly be open. And people who are paid hourly are often those who can't afford to take a day off at all. Maybe a mandatory paid two hours? Making it trivial to vote by mail, on the other hand, means that people can vote whenever. Like they do in Colorado: Universal vote-by-mail packages are sent to every registered voter. [1] [1] http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/10/23/colorado-all-mail-election_n_6037028.html http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/10/23/colorado-all-mail-e...
- gus_massa 10y ago
  Here in Argentina we vote on Sunday, so most of the people have a free day anyway.
  - soneca 10y ago
    In Brazil too. We also have mandatory voting (not defending this idea here, just stating)
- jcbeard 10y ago
  You know, some small cities in Europe (thinking of Germany) shut down for "quiet time" after lunch. Guess what happens? Nothing bad, life goes on. You know what would happen in America, we couldn't buy stuff for an hour or two. You know what else would happen? The voices of the people that make this country run would be heard. Make it half days for two days. You can easily identify "critical" services like medical/fire/police and stagger them or have early voting. Things like this work, and they work well. Doesn't matter how long, two hours would likely be fine. I've had problems getting to vote in that amount of time. I've waited in a line at a Texas polling station for more than that (which is why I said a day). These voting laws are only half the problem. Maybe via mail would fix the issue. I doubt people who decry "voter fraud" would trust mail-in ballots.
  - SomeCallMeTim 10y ago
    >we couldn't buy stuff for an hour or two To be clear I'm not saying a two hour shut-down would be bad. Just that vote-by-mail would be better because it would allow anyone, on any schedule, to vote, and it wouldn't require hourly employees to lose money in order to vote. Not everyone works within an hour of their voting location, so a two hour shut-down wouldn't help them at all -- and as you point out, bad lines can mean two hours isn't enough, period. >I doubt people who decry "voter fraud" would trust mail-in ballots. Well, I agree, but only because they don't really give a crap about voter fraud; the difference in NC was only that they ended up being proven to be changing the rules to limit black voters. I just heard today that reports of actual voter fraud are not even as common as reports of alien abduction; no one in government actually believes these rules are about fraud, or they're idiots. Some are just better at hiding their racist and anti-Democratic-voter motivations. In any event, Colorado is one of (at least) three states sending mail-in ballots to all registered voters, so it's something that can be done.
pohl 10y ago
What's even more amazing is how many are willing to discuss their motives openly[1]. I say we trade in Columbus Day for a national voting holiday, and if lawmakers want IDs then we should give every eligible voter a free one. [1] http://billmoyers.com/2014/10/24/voter-discrimination/ http://billmoyers.com/2014/10/24/voter-discrimination/

by jcbeard 10y ago

awqrre 10y ago

Maybe also remove the need for voter's registration? In other words, everyone eligible to vote should be automatically registered...

finid 10y ago
Come to think of it, when you're issued a state ID/driver's licence, that should also be considered your registration to vote, provided you've reached voting age. That should eliminate another thing you need to register for.
- jbapple 10y ago
  > Come to think of it, when you're issued a state ID/driver's licence, that should also be considered your registration to vote, provided you've reached voting age. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Voter_Registration_Act_of_1993#Voter_registration_of_driver.27s_license_applicants https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Voter_Registration_Ac... "Section 5 requires state motor vehicle offices to provide voter registration opportunities to anyone applying for a new or renewed driver's license or state identification card."
  - finid 10y ago
    Not the same thing. My idea is this: When you're get a state issued ID, no need to fill out another form. You ID may be tagged with something that lets officials know whether you're a citizen or not.
    - calvano915 10y ago
      And you shouldn't have to declare a party, or at least forced to.
  - codeddesign 10y ago
    In NC when you get an ID or a license it is mandatory for them to ask 2 questions: would you like to register to vote? Register for which party? Unfortunately how the party system works, you can't just merely auto register to vote...as we seen this year in the democratic primaries you must register as a democratic in order to vote democratic in their primary.
    - rhizome 10y ago
      That's a closed primary, but not all states have them.
- Frondo 10y ago
  That is another thing Oregon just did, they call it the "motor voter" law. Do your business at the DMV, you're automatically registered to vote. Of course the usual suspects came out to decry how this'll let more poors and minorities vote, but then, don't they always come up with reasons why those people shouldn't vote?

CptJamesCook 10y ago

There is a tradition, thousands of years old, of the rich and powerful not wanting the common man to vote.

finid 10y ago
Yep, it's a continuation of slavery -> Jim Crow ->

SomeCallMeTim 10y ago

>voting days mandatory time off. Think about that for a minute. If it were a full mandatory day off, then basically no retail could possibly be open. And people who are paid hourly are often those who can't afford to take a day off at all. Maybe a mandatory paid two hours? Making it trivial to vote by mail, on the other hand, means that people can vote whenever. Like they do in Colorado: Universal vote-by-mail packages are sent to every registered voter. [1] [1] http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/10/23/colorado-all-mail-election_n_6037028.html http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/10/23/colorado-all-mail-e...

gus_massa 10y ago
Here in Argentina we vote on Sunday, so most of the people have a free day anyway.
- soneca 10y ago
  In Brazil too. We also have mandatory voting (not defending this idea here, just stating)
jcbeard 10y ago
You know, some small cities in Europe (thinking of Germany) shut down for "quiet time" after lunch. Guess what happens? Nothing bad, life goes on. You know what would happen in America, we couldn't buy stuff for an hour or two. You know what else would happen? The voices of the people that make this country run would be heard. Make it half days for two days. You can easily identify "critical" services like medical/fire/police and stagger them or have early voting. Things like this work, and they work well. Doesn't matter how long, two hours would likely be fine. I've had problems getting to vote in that amount of time. I've waited in a line at a Texas polling station for more than that (which is why I said a day). These voting laws are only half the problem. Maybe via mail would fix the issue. I doubt people who decry "voter fraud" would trust mail-in ballots.
- SomeCallMeTim 10y ago
  >we couldn't buy stuff for an hour or two To be clear I'm not saying a two hour shut-down would be bad. Just that vote-by-mail would be better because it would allow anyone, on any schedule, to vote, and it wouldn't require hourly employees to lose money in order to vote. Not everyone works within an hour of their voting location, so a two hour shut-down wouldn't help them at all -- and as you point out, bad lines can mean two hours isn't enough, period. >I doubt people who decry "voter fraud" would trust mail-in ballots. Well, I agree, but only because they don't really give a crap about voter fraud; the difference in NC was only that they ended up being proven to be changing the rules to limit black voters. I just heard today that reports of actual voter fraud are not even as common as reports of alien abduction; no one in government actually believes these rules are about fraud, or they're idiots. Some are just better at hiding their racist and anti-Democratic-voter motivations. In any event, Colorado is one of (at least) three states sending mail-in ballots to all registered voters, so it's something that can be done.

pohl 10y ago

What's even more amazing is how many are willing to discuss their motives openly[1]. I say we trade in Columbus Day for a national voting holiday, and if lawmakers want IDs then we should give every eligible voter a free one. [1] http://billmoyers.com/2014/10/24/voter-discrimination/ http://billmoyers.com/2014/10/24/voter-discrimination/