5 ms·

>...it will be interesting to see what they try next. It seems clear to me they've had the meetings and made the decision to ram Win10 down user's throats come

by dmfdmf 10y ago

>...it will be interesting to see what they try next. It seems clear to me they've had the meetings and made the decision to ram Win10 down user's throats come hell or high water. They've given no indication that they regret the Win10 hard-sell or that it was any kind of mistake or misstep. On the contrary, they have doubled-down on the strategy and dismissed all objections along the way. The misuse of the red X to mean "OK" instead of "No" or "Cancel", breaking Windows Update so you could not block or hide the GWX are clear signs of their intent. Win10 is the core of Microsoft's strategy to compete with Apple and Google. They want to become a marketing company and Windows 10 OS [Operating Spyware] is key to their long-term strategy. They want to shutdown support for all the remaining operating systems and push everyone onto Win10 as quickly as possible. The strategy is further revealed by their announcement that Cortana (and its associated collection of personal data and tracking) cannot be turned off in all but the Enterprise or Education versions of Win10, neither of which will be generally available. My view is that this strategy will backfire. Win10 is not going to be installed in any business that needs high data security either for operations or regulatory requirements like HIPPA or the SEC, etc. The vast number of companies currently using Win7 aren't going to move to Win10 unless Microsoft reveals the scope of the spying and provides tools to shut it off without buying the Enterprise version. Everything will come to a head in 2020 when Win7 support is slated to end. At that point, I am planning on moving to Linux and I don't think I am alone. But what I do is irrelevant to Microsoft (essentially a consumer user of Windows) but what the installed base of business users of Windows choose to do will determine the future of Windows. It will be interesting to see who blinks first.

pjmlp 10y ago
Consumers can also choose to be spied by Apple or Google instead.
- dmfdmf 10y ago
  Some people are down voting you but this is true. What is different about Microsoft is they are changing the terms of the relationship with Windows 10 whereas with Apple and Google it was always like this.
  - executesorder66 10y ago
    I think the down votes are because you could install Linux instead. Which is not owned by Apple or Google.
    - pjmlp 10y ago
      Assuming it has the desktop software people are used to, or that is able to have as much battery life without using powertop, or plug int any foreign beamer with a randr incantation. Or that the distribution owners don't decide, just because, to replace a WiFi driver because of evil Broadcom and leave Ubuntu users 6 months without proper WiFi support until the open source driver catches up in features. This happened a few years ago, just check the Ubuntu forums for the not so happy users comments.
Silhouette 10y ago
I think you're right that they're doubling down, but I've also argued similarly to you that 2020 is going to be crunch time and their current strategy isn't working. My suspicion is that investors are going to get nervous well before then, though, because if 10 is still looking like another Vista/8 then the strategy isn't going to work and Microsoft is at a serious risk of losing its market dominance no matter what else is going on. They would need new leadership in place in time to produce an acceptable alternative for the other half of the market before the end of Win7 support forces those people and organisations to make the hard decisions, very possibly at Microsoft's expense. As of the cut-off this week it isn't looking like the "get everyone onto 10" strategy has worked so far, so my guess is Nadella has to come up with something new by probably next summer or he's done. It wouldn't surprise me if plan B has been in the works for some time and is announced in their next quarterly update, along with a positive spin on Windows 10 results that will objectively still show that roughly half their market didn't move to 10 even when they literally gave it away. I have no idea what sort of plan B would fit with Nadella's overall vision, though, and it also wouldn't surprise me if they keep doubling down on 10 and the cloud strategy.
- dmfdmf 10y ago
  I think Nadella has probably explained his long-term strategy to the board clearly and that it might take a while, even past 2020, so his job is not at risk. I agree that 2020 will be a critical year because companies will have to decide to stick with the Microsoft latest system, move to something else or keep Win7 running securely without MS help. If MS loses market share they are still going to continue to dominate the market for a long time and leveraging user personal info is "where its at" today in tech companies, i.e. the future, so no one is going to panic. The era of licensed software is ending (its now a service) and its clear with the success of marketing companies like Google and Apple that the biggest players will be marketing companies not technology companies. Microsoft is playing catch up hence the heavy-handed push for Win10. I disagree that Win10 is a failure like Vista or Win8. I like Win10, I think it is better than Win7 (which I like a lot) and would upgrade in a second if Microsoft was more transparent on what data is being sent home under the rubic "telemetry" and they allowed me the ability to block or turn this off if I don't want to participate. The EU is already questioning the privacy concerns of Win10 and it seems likely that the US anti-trust division isn't going to stand around and do nothing. I am afraid that this time the Justice Department will break Microsoft up into separate companies due to their "unfair" advantage if they continue down this path.[1] [1] Not a fan of the anti-trust laws, I think they are too undefined to follow ex ante and are used for political prosecutions ex post but this is the current legal status of the country.
scholia 10y ago
> They want to shutdown support for all the remaining operating systems and push everyone onto Win10 as quickly as possible. They want to move everyone to Windows 10. This does not involve shutting down support for anything else. The support periods are published a long time ahead, and as you say yourself, Windows 7 will be supported until 2020. > Win10 is not going to be installed in any business that needs high data security either for operations or regulatory requirements like HIPPA or the SEC, etc. You appear to have missed the fact that the US Defense Department has already starting moving four million users to Windows 10 precisely because of the advanced security. I know banks and other organizations that are moving, too. DoD-Wide Windows 10 Rapid Deployment to Boost Cybersecurity By Cheryl Pellerin DoD News, Defense Media Activity http://www.defense.gov/-News-Article-View/Article/688721/dod-wide-windows-10-rapid-deployment-to-boost-cybersecurity http://www.defense.gov/-News-Article-View/Article/688721/dod...
- eximius 10y ago
  Enterprise windows is probably much, much better than the retail version in that admins have an incredible amount of control through GPOs and the like, including turning off many features that we dislike. That does not mean that it doesnt require a lot of work. And, we the little guys still get stuck with the retail version that makes it difficult to turn all of these options off in a central location with clear settings.
  - scholia 10y ago
    Yes, they are much better and yes, you control things via GPOs. See https://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/library/mt577208%28v=vs.85%29.aspx https://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/library/mt577208%28v=vs.... > retail version that makes it difficult to turn all of these options off in a central location with clear settings. Just type privacy in the search box and go to the central location that has very clear settings. It's called "Privacy settings". It takes a minute or two, but it's not actually hard. (I'm now sorry I didn't time myself doing it.) It also provides excellent control over which apps can use your camera and microphone, and you can block all of them. You can go to "Speech, inking and typing" and click the button that says "Stop getting to know me" to turn off personalization. That page also has a link to privacy statements and a link to take you to Bing where you can delete any personalization info that has already been stored. It looks pretty clear to me. I'd also be interested if you can explain how this is any harder in Windows 10 than it is in Android or iOS.
rpgmaker 10y ago
> Win10 is not going to be installed in any business that needs high data security either for operations or regulatory requirements like HIPPA or the SEC, etc. Nah, I have worked with HIPAA compliant businesses before and as long as the data MS collects isn't (demonstrably) leaked to malevolent third parties they won't care. They upgrade to whatever MS tells them to upgrade and these kind of OS issues aren't discussed at all. They care about the privacy of the information they deal with directly but whatever the OS does under the hood it's assumed to be proper.
- dmfdmf 10y ago
  I wouldn't be so blase. First, that was all true BEFORE Microsoft made Windows a marketing platform so all bets are off now. Also, that decision (what is safe and not safe) is not up to the regulated business to make, its up to the regulators. If you have not worked in a highly regulated business you can't know what this means in terms of arbitrary and unnecessary rulings and requirements imposed on a business, regardless of whether they make any sense. Moreover, for the first 10 years of its existence, HIPAA was a homeless step-child in the Federal government but fairly recently (5 years?) it found a enforcement home (and more importantly, a budget) in the Health and Human Services department. They are now building their budget and have developed their enforcement strategy that started with big insurance companies and large PPO/HMOs (you may have heard of some big cases in the news). HHS's plan is to ultimately push enforcement all the way down to the practice level. FYI, most IT companies don't know this but back in 2012 or 2013 the new HIPAA enforcement division issued a decree that HIPAA applies directly to any IT companies that service organizations that handle personal health data. Prior to that proclamation I was operating under a signed declaration with my clients that my business was not responsible for HIPAA enforcement or violations (I just fixed the computers). That method of limiting my exposure and liability, according to my lawyer, was no longer feasible and I could be hit directly with HIPAA violations and fines and they required onerous documentation and procedures when dealing with PHI. At that point, at significant cut to my income, I dropped all my healthcare/medical clients. In the long run the regulatory agencies are captured by the regulated business and the requirements imposed are fairly sensible but by my guess is that we are at least a decade away from that regarding HIPAA especially considering its only now starting to be enforced with audits and fines.

by dmfdmf 10y ago

pjmlp 10y ago

Consumers can also choose to be spied by Apple or Google instead.

dmfdmf 10y ago
Some people are down voting you but this is true. What is different about Microsoft is they are changing the terms of the relationship with Windows 10 whereas with Apple and Google it was always like this.
- executesorder66 10y ago
  I think the down votes are because you could install Linux instead. Which is not owned by Apple or Google.
  - pjmlp 10y ago
    Assuming it has the desktop software people are used to, or that is able to have as much battery life without using powertop, or plug int any foreign beamer with a randr incantation. Or that the distribution owners don't decide, just because, to replace a WiFi driver because of evil Broadcom and leave Ubuntu users 6 months without proper WiFi support until the open source driver catches up in features. This happened a few years ago, just check the Ubuntu forums for the not so happy users comments.

Silhouette 10y ago

I think you're right that they're doubling down, but I've also argued similarly to you that 2020 is going to be crunch time and their current strategy isn't working. My suspicion is that investors are going to get nervous well before then, though, because if 10 is still looking like another Vista/8 then the strategy isn't going to work and Microsoft is at a serious risk of losing its market dominance no matter what else is going on. They would need new leadership in place in time to produce an acceptable alternative for the other half of the market before the end of Win7 support forces those people and organisations to make the hard decisions, very possibly at Microsoft's expense. As of the cut-off this week it isn't looking like the "get everyone onto 10" strategy has worked so far, so my guess is Nadella has to come up with something new by probably next summer or he's done. It wouldn't surprise me if plan B has been in the works for some time and is announced in their next quarterly update, along with a positive spin on Windows 10 results that will objectively still show that roughly half their market didn't move to 10 even when they literally gave it away. I have no idea what sort of plan B would fit with Nadella's overall vision, though, and it also wouldn't surprise me if they keep doubling down on 10 and the cloud strategy.

dmfdmf 10y ago
I think Nadella has probably explained his long-term strategy to the board clearly and that it might take a while, even past 2020, so his job is not at risk. I agree that 2020 will be a critical year because companies will have to decide to stick with the Microsoft latest system, move to something else or keep Win7 running securely without MS help. If MS loses market share they are still going to continue to dominate the market for a long time and leveraging user personal info is "where its at" today in tech companies, i.e. the future, so no one is going to panic. The era of licensed software is ending (its now a service) and its clear with the success of marketing companies like Google and Apple that the biggest players will be marketing companies not technology companies. Microsoft is playing catch up hence the heavy-handed push for Win10. I disagree that Win10 is a failure like Vista or Win8. I like Win10, I think it is better than Win7 (which I like a lot) and would upgrade in a second if Microsoft was more transparent on what data is being sent home under the rubic "telemetry" and they allowed me the ability to block or turn this off if I don't want to participate. The EU is already questioning the privacy concerns of Win10 and it seems likely that the US anti-trust division isn't going to stand around and do nothing. I am afraid that this time the Justice Department will break Microsoft up into separate companies due to their "unfair" advantage if they continue down this path.[1] [1] Not a fan of the anti-trust laws, I think they are too undefined to follow ex ante and are used for political prosecutions ex post but this is the current legal status of the country.

scholia 10y ago

> They want to shutdown support for all the remaining operating systems and push everyone onto Win10 as quickly as possible. They want to move everyone to Windows 10. This does not involve shutting down support for anything else. The support periods are published a long time ahead, and as you say yourself, Windows 7 will be supported until 2020. > Win10 is not going to be installed in any business that needs high data security either for operations or regulatory requirements like HIPPA or the SEC, etc. You appear to have missed the fact that the US Defense Department has already starting moving four million users to Windows 10 precisely because of the advanced security. I know banks and other organizations that are moving, too. DoD-Wide Windows 10 Rapid Deployment to Boost Cybersecurity By Cheryl Pellerin DoD News, Defense Media Activity http://www.defense.gov/-News-Article-View/Article/688721/dod-wide-windows-10-rapid-deployment-to-boost-cybersecurity http://www.defense.gov/-News-Article-View/Article/688721/dod...

eximius 10y ago
Enterprise windows is probably much, much better than the retail version in that admins have an incredible amount of control through GPOs and the like, including turning off many features that we dislike. That does not mean that it doesnt require a lot of work. And, we the little guys still get stuck with the retail version that makes it difficult to turn all of these options off in a central location with clear settings.
- scholia 10y ago
  Yes, they are much better and yes, you control things via GPOs. See https://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/library/mt577208%28v=vs.85%29.aspx https://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/library/mt577208%28v=vs.... > retail version that makes it difficult to turn all of these options off in a central location with clear settings. Just type privacy in the search box and go to the central location that has very clear settings. It's called "Privacy settings". It takes a minute or two, but it's not actually hard. (I'm now sorry I didn't time myself doing it.) It also provides excellent control over which apps can use your camera and microphone, and you can block all of them. You can go to "Speech, inking and typing" and click the button that says "Stop getting to know me" to turn off personalization. That page also has a link to privacy statements and a link to take you to Bing where you can delete any personalization info that has already been stored. It looks pretty clear to me. I'd also be interested if you can explain how this is any harder in Windows 10 than it is in Android or iOS.

rpgmaker 10y ago

> Win10 is not going to be installed in any business that needs high data security either for operations or regulatory requirements like HIPPA or the SEC, etc. Nah, I have worked with HIPAA compliant businesses before and as long as the data MS collects isn't (demonstrably) leaked to malevolent third parties they won't care. They upgrade to whatever MS tells them to upgrade and these kind of OS issues aren't discussed at all. They care about the privacy of the information they deal with directly but whatever the OS does under the hood it's assumed to be proper.

dmfdmf 10y ago
I wouldn't be so blase. First, that was all true BEFORE Microsoft made Windows a marketing platform so all bets are off now. Also, that decision (what is safe and not safe) is not up to the regulated business to make, its up to the regulators. If you have not worked in a highly regulated business you can't know what this means in terms of arbitrary and unnecessary rulings and requirements imposed on a business, regardless of whether they make any sense. Moreover, for the first 10 years of its existence, HIPAA was a homeless step-child in the Federal government but fairly recently (5 years?) it found a enforcement home (and more importantly, a budget) in the Health and Human Services department. They are now building their budget and have developed their enforcement strategy that started with big insurance companies and large PPO/HMOs (you may have heard of some big cases in the news). HHS's plan is to ultimately push enforcement all the way down to the practice level. FYI, most IT companies don't know this but back in 2012 or 2013 the new HIPAA enforcement division issued a decree that HIPAA applies directly to any IT companies that service organizations that handle personal health data. Prior to that proclamation I was operating under a signed declaration with my clients that my business was not responsible for HIPAA enforcement or violations (I just fixed the computers). That method of limiting my exposure and liability, according to my lawyer, was no longer feasible and I could be hit directly with HIPAA violations and fines and they required onerous documentation and procedures when dealing with PHI. At that point, at significant cut to my income, I dropped all my healthcare/medical clients. In the long run the regulatory agencies are captured by the regulated business and the requirements imposed are fairly sensible but by my guess is that we are at least a decade away from that regarding HIPAA especially considering its only now starting to be enforced with audits and fines.