5 ms·

>It is possible to learn German but it requires huge effort and dedication and not many people are capable of that. Interesting. Wondering whether your native

by vram22 10y ago

>It is possible to learn German but it requires huge effort and dedication and not many people are capable of that. Interesting. Wondering whether your native language is English. While mine is not, I'm pretty fluent in it. Why I am saying this, is because I've been learning German slowly for a few months now via the Duolingo app on mobile, and I did not find it (so far, anyway) to be very difficult. And that - not finding it difficult - surprised me a bit, because I had heard from friends in high school that they though German, for instance, was harder to learn than French (anecdote only, not data). I thought about the possible reasons for this (my not finding it too hard), and came up with one: since I know English, and German and English have some words and historical and cultural background in common, I could make educated guesses in many cases about the meanings of German words, before learning what they meant (because they were similar to English words meaning the same thing), and also in some other cases, after learning what the words meant, I could, with hindsight, relate them to English words meaning the same thing, just spelled a bit differently. This trick does not work for all words, of course, but does for enough of them, that it eases my learning. Also, I've developed a memory trick to associate new German words with known English words. It's not really anything new, just a form of association of the new word with a memorable (to me) English word or phrase, using what I think is called the memory palace method or something like that (I need to look up if that is the right one I mean).

SyneRyder 10y ago
Duolingo is good, but I'm not sure it's a great measure of understanding the language. I've been teaching myself German over the last 5 years using Duolingo (and LingQ) and I've completed all the German lessons (Level 23) - and while I can read German reasonably well now, I would still struggle to write or speak fluently in German. Thinking of what you want to say quickly is a skill that Duolingo doesn't really teach - but maybe that's where iTalki or LingQ Skype classes come in. [Native English speaker here, for what it's worth.]
- vram22 10y ago
  >Duolingo is good, but I'm not sure it's a great measure of understanding the language. On further thought, I agree. When I wrote what I wrote above, it was in the back of my mind, to also add that I don't think the rate of progress that Duolingo shows for me, can be even near correct. E.g. after these few months (which also had gaps of a few days now and then during which I did not use the app), it now tells me I am 14 or 15% fluent in German - which I don't think can be the case at all, even without knowing much about the structure of the language, the number and kinds of grammar rules, tenses, the number of words in the German vocabulary, etc. (I'm probably much lower, maybe 1 or 2% is my guess, if such a thing can even be measured.) Also, some of my school friends who said German was hard to learn - for others, were Germans (who also spoke good English), so they likely knew what they were saying. >and while I can read German reasonably well now, I would still struggle to write or speak fluently in German. Interesting. Will have to see what my experience is as time goes by. >Thinking of what you want to say quickly is a skill that Duolingo doesn't really teach Will check that as time goes by. Maybe immersion is more useful for that skill.
  - SyneRyder 10y ago
    The 15% fluency could be accurate - another way to interpret that number is that you struggle to understand 85% of the language. (Even after completing the German lessons, Duolingo says I'm only 49% fluent.) Duolingo is still great though, because it keeps you practicing every day. I'm amazed at how much more I understand now compared to when I started. It's worth persevering!
    - vram22 10y ago
      > (Even after completing the German lessons, Duolingo says I'm only 49% fluent.) Interesting. A sort of logarithmic scale maybe. >Duolingo is still great though, because it keeps you practicing every day. Agreed. >I'm amazed at how much more I understand now compared to when I started. It's worth persevering! Definitely worth. I'm enjoying it. Thanks for the info.
wolfgke 10y ago
> And that - not finding it difficult - surprised me a bit, because I had heard from friends in high school that they though German, for instance, was harder to learn than French (anecdote only, not data). In my opinion (native German speaker) German is at the beginning harder than French for English native speakers. After you got to some level both languages are about equally hard. For the reason: To become fluent in German you have to know inside out how to conjugate a verb (there are some ugly verbs and tenses) and declinate a noun/adjective (in all three grammatical genders, singular and plural) in all tenses/cases, which is really ugly at the beginning for people who aren't used to it. The best way to learn this is in my opinion brute training until you can do it blindfolded. The reason why I emphasize this is that you will not be speaking fluently if you have to think for seconds each time what the correct conjugation/declination is for the verb that you want to speak now. As soon you got over this ugly part (which, because it is ugly you better should be learning it directly at the beginning, so that you have it in you reflexes), German and French are in my opinion about equally hard.
- vram22 10y ago
  Thanks for the advice, in general. >For the reason: To become fluent in German you have to know inside out how to conjugate a verb (there are some ugly verbs and tenses) and declinate a noun/adjective (in all three grammatical genders, singular and plural) in all tenses/cases, which is really ugly at the beginning for people who aren't used to it. The best way to learn this is in my opinion brute training until you can do it blindfolded. Like learning multiplication tables by repeating them out loud and/or writing them out, multiple (heh) times :) I guess that makes sense, particularly if there are not very systematic rules that define those things, i.e. you just have to memorize it (and is that what you mean by 'ugly' - that it does not follow logical rules by which one can figure out, say, verb conjugations of verb B after knowing it for verb A?) E.g. I realized a bit after starting the Duolingo course, that it was not clear (without knowing it already) when to use Der vs. Die vs. Das, and some other things like that; even Sie means both She and They (in different contexts) - at least it was not explained in the app, AFAIK - could be I missed some part of it and need to re-check. I think I need to now get some proper learning books for it. Duolingo can take you only so far, I guess.
dilemma 10y ago
Learning is easy if you're interested. Einstein's advice to his daughter was something along the lines that you should pursue your curiosities because that way you can learn anything effortlessly. For me, learning English was effortless, and Mandarin is no longer difficult as I now have a goal and an interest in learning. On the other hand, I never properly learnt to program though I started with QBasic at the age of ten, because I had no clear goal for it. Likewise with French and Japanese, and German while I lived in Berlin - I never saw myself living in any of the three countries for a long time. I think Duolingo helps a lot in learning because you don't need to plan out times to sit down with books to study, making it less of a chore and more a natural part of life. Learning in school is really no way to learn. For me its always been books, movies, and the internet.

by vram22 10y ago

SyneRyder 10y ago

Duolingo is good, but I'm not sure it's a great measure of understanding the language. I've been teaching myself German over the last 5 years using Duolingo (and LingQ) and I've completed all the German lessons (Level 23) - and while I can read German reasonably well now, I would still struggle to write or speak fluently in German. Thinking of what you want to say quickly is a skill that Duolingo doesn't really teach - but maybe that's where iTalki or LingQ Skype classes come in. [Native English speaker here, for what it's worth.]

vram22 10y ago
>Duolingo is good, but I'm not sure it's a great measure of understanding the language. On further thought, I agree. When I wrote what I wrote above, it was in the back of my mind, to also add that I don't think the rate of progress that Duolingo shows for me, can be even near correct. E.g. after these few months (which also had gaps of a few days now and then during which I did not use the app), it now tells me I am 14 or 15% fluent in German - which I don't think can be the case at all, even without knowing much about the structure of the language, the number and kinds of grammar rules, tenses, the number of words in the German vocabulary, etc. (I'm probably much lower, maybe 1 or 2% is my guess, if such a thing can even be measured.) Also, some of my school friends who said German was hard to learn - for others, were Germans (who also spoke good English), so they likely knew what they were saying. >and while I can read German reasonably well now, I would still struggle to write or speak fluently in German. Interesting. Will have to see what my experience is as time goes by. >Thinking of what you want to say quickly is a skill that Duolingo doesn't really teach Will check that as time goes by. Maybe immersion is more useful for that skill.
- SyneRyder 10y ago
  The 15% fluency could be accurate - another way to interpret that number is that you struggle to understand 85% of the language. (Even after completing the German lessons, Duolingo says I'm only 49% fluent.) Duolingo is still great though, because it keeps you practicing every day. I'm amazed at how much more I understand now compared to when I started. It's worth persevering!
  - vram22 10y ago
    > (Even after completing the German lessons, Duolingo says I'm only 49% fluent.) Interesting. A sort of logarithmic scale maybe. >Duolingo is still great though, because it keeps you practicing every day. Agreed. >I'm amazed at how much more I understand now compared to when I started. It's worth persevering! Definitely worth. I'm enjoying it. Thanks for the info.

wolfgke 10y ago

> And that - not finding it difficult - surprised me a bit, because I had heard from friends in high school that they though German, for instance, was harder to learn than French (anecdote only, not data). In my opinion (native German speaker) German is at the beginning harder than French for English native speakers. After you got to some level both languages are about equally hard. For the reason: To become fluent in German you have to know inside out how to conjugate a verb (there are some ugly verbs and tenses) and declinate a noun/adjective (in all three grammatical genders, singular and plural) in all tenses/cases, which is really ugly at the beginning for people who aren't used to it. The best way to learn this is in my opinion brute training until you can do it blindfolded. The reason why I emphasize this is that you will not be speaking fluently if you have to think for seconds each time what the correct conjugation/declination is for the verb that you want to speak now. As soon you got over this ugly part (which, because it is ugly you better should be learning it directly at the beginning, so that you have it in you reflexes), German and French are in my opinion about equally hard.

vram22 10y ago
Thanks for the advice, in general. >For the reason: To become fluent in German you have to know inside out how to conjugate a verb (there are some ugly verbs and tenses) and declinate a noun/adjective (in all three grammatical genders, singular and plural) in all tenses/cases, which is really ugly at the beginning for people who aren't used to it. The best way to learn this is in my opinion brute training until you can do it blindfolded. Like learning multiplication tables by repeating them out loud and/or writing them out, multiple (heh) times :) I guess that makes sense, particularly if there are not very systematic rules that define those things, i.e. you just have to memorize it (and is that what you mean by 'ugly' - that it does not follow logical rules by which one can figure out, say, verb conjugations of verb B after knowing it for verb A?) E.g. I realized a bit after starting the Duolingo course, that it was not clear (without knowing it already) when to use Der vs. Die vs. Das, and some other things like that; even Sie means both She and They (in different contexts) - at least it was not explained in the app, AFAIK - could be I missed some part of it and need to re-check. I think I need to now get some proper learning books for it. Duolingo can take you only so far, I guess.

dilemma 10y ago

Learning is easy if you're interested. Einstein's advice to his daughter was something along the lines that you should pursue your curiosities because that way you can learn anything effortlessly. For me, learning English was effortless, and Mandarin is no longer difficult as I now have a goal and an interest in learning. On the other hand, I never properly learnt to program though I started with QBasic at the age of ten, because I had no clear goal for it. Likewise with French and Japanese, and German while I lived in Berlin - I never saw myself living in any of the three countries for a long time. I think Duolingo helps a lot in learning because you don't need to plan out times to sit down with books to study, making it less of a chore and more a natural part of life. Learning in school is really no way to learn. For me its always been books, movies, and the internet.