4 ms·

Since most of the discussion here seems to revolve around funding, let me point out that the article is mostly about other factors: "Worse than a possible dip

Since most of the discussion here seems to revolve around funding, let me point out that the article is mostly about other factors: "Worse than a possible dip in funding is the research community’s fear that collaborators abroad will slink away and the island’s universities will find themselves isolated. [...] The community is asking: Will the foreigners continue to be welcome in British laboratories and will British researchers continue be partners with collaborators from abroad?" Funding can be replaced, but if foreign researchers have a harder time getting into Britain, that could be a problem for research in the UK

sigzero 10y ago
Maybe the EU needs to rethink that "free movement" part.
- greendesk 10y ago
  [edited for clarity]: Maybe the UK needs to rethink that "blame anyone but UK" part. The current Brexit discussion is too close to the Euro Sausage movie of Yes, Minister: away from reality, but political maneuvering to put blame on non-UK entity for internal squabbles. The U.K. Politicians worked to outsource its politics to the EU. Back to free movement:I do not see reasons to rethink or restrict free movement; without it life will be more red tape and bureaucracy. I do not want free movement to be reconsidered.
  - tim333 10y ago
    It's ironic that the EU did allow a transitional period before countries had to allow free movement, to prevent richer counties being flooded with Poles and the like and the UK turned that down so Polish people looking for work came there from 2004 whereas they couldn't work in Germany till 2011 for example. Now the brexiters tend to blame the EU for having too many Polish turning up when much of it was a UK government choice. Indeed mostly the choice of Tony Blair which he still defends: http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/666822/Tony-Blair-migrants-Poland-politics-eastern-Europe http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/666822/Tony-Blair-migrants-...
    - greendesk 10y ago
      A lot of things in politics and social interaction are ironic. I would note how the UK government did not want to raise steel tariffs to support Tata's Talbot plant. The reason was that it would increase prices for every consumer of steel. So the UK government blocked the EU's increase of steel tariffs. What was Boris Johnson's plan? I can't find the interview, but he shared he'd increase tariffs to support UK steel. These are the same tariffs UK's autonomous government blocked - the same tariffs that he 'outsourced the blame' to Brussels for the UK autonomous decision. Politics are hard for me to understand.
  - Chris2048 10y ago
    I think a lot of Brits do distrust their politicians. Look how few established parties / politicians supported leave, when the majority of the country did support leave. Britain needs better representation, but there is little choice...
superswordfish 10y ago
This sounds like fear-mongering. Is there reason to believe that foreign researchers will have a hard time getting into the UK? This surely is not an issue for the US, which is not part of the EU.
- thenomad 10y ago
  Yes, there definitely is. The difficulties of getting non-EU nationals into the UK to work are already pretty much top of the complaints list of folk I know who run significant IT companies. I don't know about the academic sector, but in general UK immigration law is already very harsh, and the exit from the EU was largely driven by a desire to limit immigration.
  - mattmanser 10y ago
    In 2014 the net migration into the UK was 318,000. Half of that was from outside of the EU. That's .5% increase in our population per year. Per year! The net migration to the UK has gone mental since 1996. It's simply not sustainable. House prices are crazy, council services and the NHS are struggling as we cut funding due to austerity and you're complaining about how hard it is to get into the UK when we've actually been letting in massive amounts of people. Unbelievable. http://www.migrationwatchuk.org/statistics-net-migration-statistics http://www.migrationwatchuk.org/statistics-net-migration-sta...
    - d4rti 10y ago
      Things can be both difficult and common The immigration process is not easy for Non-European nationals. It requires sheafs of paper documentation and significant fees.
    - thenomad 10y ago
      Interesting stats - thanks, I'll look into them. (I should say: this should neither be taken as "I now believe everything you say" nor "and now I will find reasons, no matter how arbitrary, to dismiss everything you've presented".)
    - 10y ago

sigzero 10y ago

Maybe the EU needs to rethink that "free movement" part.

greendesk 10y ago
[edited for clarity]: Maybe the UK needs to rethink that "blame anyone but UK" part. The current Brexit discussion is too close to the Euro Sausage movie of Yes, Minister: away from reality, but political maneuvering to put blame on non-UK entity for internal squabbles. The U.K. Politicians worked to outsource its politics to the EU. Back to free movement:I do not see reasons to rethink or restrict free movement; without it life will be more red tape and bureaucracy. I do not want free movement to be reconsidered.
- tim333 10y ago
  It's ironic that the EU did allow a transitional period before countries had to allow free movement, to prevent richer counties being flooded with Poles and the like and the UK turned that down so Polish people looking for work came there from 2004 whereas they couldn't work in Germany till 2011 for example. Now the brexiters tend to blame the EU for having too many Polish turning up when much of it was a UK government choice. Indeed mostly the choice of Tony Blair which he still defends: http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/666822/Tony-Blair-migrants-Poland-politics-eastern-Europe http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/666822/Tony-Blair-migrants-...
  - greendesk 10y ago
    A lot of things in politics and social interaction are ironic. I would note how the UK government did not want to raise steel tariffs to support Tata's Talbot plant. The reason was that it would increase prices for every consumer of steel. So the UK government blocked the EU's increase of steel tariffs. What was Boris Johnson's plan? I can't find the interview, but he shared he'd increase tariffs to support UK steel. These are the same tariffs UK's autonomous government blocked - the same tariffs that he 'outsourced the blame' to Brussels for the UK autonomous decision. Politics are hard for me to understand.
- Chris2048 10y ago
  I think a lot of Brits do distrust their politicians. Look how few established parties / politicians supported leave, when the majority of the country did support leave. Britain needs better representation, but there is little choice...

superswordfish 10y ago

This sounds like fear-mongering. Is there reason to believe that foreign researchers will have a hard time getting into the UK? This surely is not an issue for the US, which is not part of the EU.

thenomad 10y ago
Yes, there definitely is. The difficulties of getting non-EU nationals into the UK to work are already pretty much top of the complaints list of folk I know who run significant IT companies. I don't know about the academic sector, but in general UK immigration law is already very harsh, and the exit from the EU was largely driven by a desire to limit immigration.
- mattmanser 10y ago
  In 2014 the net migration into the UK was 318,000. Half of that was from outside of the EU. That's .5% increase in our population per year. Per year! The net migration to the UK has gone mental since 1996. It's simply not sustainable. House prices are crazy, council services and the NHS are struggling as we cut funding due to austerity and you're complaining about how hard it is to get into the UK when we've actually been letting in massive amounts of people. Unbelievable. http://www.migrationwatchuk.org/statistics-net-migration-statistics http://www.migrationwatchuk.org/statistics-net-migration-sta...
  - d4rti 10y ago
    Things can be both difficult and common The immigration process is not easy for Non-European nationals. It requires sheafs of paper documentation and significant fees.
  - thenomad 10y ago
    Interesting stats - thanks, I'll look into them. (I should say: this should neither be taken as "I now believe everything you say" nor "and now I will find reasons, no matter how arbitrary, to dismiss everything you've presented".)
  - 10y ago