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Here's an article on the same topic, but less euphoric: http://www.thelocal.de/20160729/how-the-berlin-startup-scene-is-wasting-its-potential http://www.theloc

Here's an article on the same topic, but less euphoric: http://www.thelocal.de/20160729/how-the-berlin-startup-scene-is-wasting-its-potential http://www.thelocal.de/20160729/how-the-berlin-startup-scene... The author's glorification of the middle management and how it adds "efficient communication" makes me a little skeptical. But the rest sounds accurate.

drinchev 10y ago
100 times this article. I just posted the article on HN [1]. The "startup-scene" is somehow fake around here. 1 : https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12196525 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12196525
bogomipz 10y ago
Its amusing to see a Swede complaining about lack of top down management when Swedish culture and decision making is notoriously consensus based.
- drinchev 10y ago
  Shaun ( the author ) is British.
  - bogomipz 10y ago
    Indeed and I missed this in his byline at the end. However my observation is still relevant here for someone so enthralled by the Swedish startup scene, complaining about Berlin's management culture strikes me as hypocritical.
hocuspocus 10y ago
The part about Stockholm being 10 years ahead of Berlin sounds very delusional to me. Salaries in Stockholm are lower on average, CoL are higher, and it's next to impossible to find an apartment there. Not exactly the best environment to attract talent.
- uola 10y ago
  I could very well see how Stockholm is 10 years ahead of Berlin in many areas, but maybe not that many were Berlin is ahead of Stockholm. It's just that it doesn't matter. Because Berlin is somewhere you can actually move to, while Stockholm would at least have to be compared to other unaffordable cities.
  - kayoone 10y ago
    what areas as an example ? just genuinely curious
    - tormeh 10y ago
      London, Oslo, Munich, New York...
    - uola 10y ago
      Many, even mundane, things. Berlin apartments are a varying standard, many don't have district heating. Grocery stores closes early, aren't open on Sundays, have limited selection and don't accept credit cards (which I've heard is changing). It's fairly normal that the staff is 40+ and don't speak English. Mobile internet is expensive, you'll have to register and charging can take hours. Still uses paper tickets for most things. Overall Germany is more traditional, conservative and religious than Sweden and while Berlin might be an anomaly in Germany it's also the capital. Note that I don't think being ahead is necessarily a good thing and that much of the greatness of Berlin comes from being slightly crappy.
      - wolfgke 10y ago
        > Grocery stores [...] aren't open on Sundays This has to do with the Ladenschlussgesetz (there is no proper English term for this) which usually forbids that. In particular the German FDP (a German party that is somewhere between liberal and libertarian) wants to abolish this law but the churches lobby for upholding it. I personally would abolish it as soon as possible. > Grocery stores [...] don't accept credit cards This is because merchants have to pay some amount for any credit card transaction. So they have good reasons not to accept them. In Europe there exists a much better system: EC cards. Use them instead if you really don't want to use cash (which is much more anonymous and thus should be prefered). > Still uses paper tickets for most things. If you imagine the data trail that non-paper tickets leave behind you, I would rather suggest to start using paper tickets wherever you live (Germans are much more concerned about protection of privacy (Datenschutzgesetz) because of having two dictatorships on German ground in the 20th century of which one was only abolished about 25 years ago).
Noseshine 10y ago
What he means by "no middle management" probably is that people are left to their own devices with little oversight and direction. That sounds good - until you work in an environment where direction is missing. The worst job I ever had was getting paid to do whatever the hell I felt like. Everybody working on the same goal, in the same direction, is next to impossible to achieve, when it happens it's pure luck. It has nothing to do with the qualities of the individuals. Of course, this starts at the top - adding middle managers when the top doesn't direct adequately sure won't help. I worked for a startup in the dot com era that everybody knows, which was eventually sold for a large sum (not a website, infrastructure/OS). I saw it a lot - and I myself was guilty of doing it - hiring people with great qualifications but we (and I) had no idea what to do with them! We just hired them. We (and I) gave them no directions. I'm somewhat ashamed of how I myself failed back then, but on the other hand not really - at 20-something the experience just isn't there. Slightly related, I recommend this video for a perspective on "innovation": https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZTC_RxWN_xo https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZTC_RxWN_xo (The true history of Silicon Valley. TL;DR: Gigantic government funding for R&D during WWII made it possible, only then came private capital.)
raverbashing 10y ago
I disagree with some points. The hate for "no middle management" is laughable HOWEVER the "too many cooks" situation can definitely happen The German management style is built on many people agreeing at the same time and doing things as good as possible which is great when you're building a train network but not so much with software
- elcapitan 10y ago
  Not just management, but all parts of German society. It leads to a Merkel-ish leadership style with late, opportunistic decisions.
  - hengheng 10y ago
    You could also call it a Volkswagen approach towards innovation. Never first to market, never anything rushed out, and do not stray away from the beaten path until the new thing has been implemented perfectly.
    - allendoerfer 10y ago
      Buying up every brand under the sun and cutting costs by putting the same window openers into their cars sounds reasonable to me. Tesla is innovative and all, so was Porsche. VW does not care and just buys you. I mean, they are running out of car companies to buy so they have to buy motorcycle manufacturers.
      - elcapitan 10y ago
        The original VW (the bug) was innovative, but then again, that was actually a Porsche (designed by Ferdinand Porsche) ;)
- theoh 10y ago
  I know I'm not supposed to mention The War, but according to John Boyd, there was a similar phenomenon in the German army which aided the success of Blitzkrieg tactics: 'According to General Gunther Blumentritt, such a scheme presupposes a common outlook based upon “a body of professional officers who have received exactly the same training during the long years of peace and with the same tactical education, the same way of thinking, identical speech, hence a body of officers to whom all tactical conceptions were fully clear.” Furthermore, a la General Blumentritt, it presupposes “an officers training institution which allows the subordinate a very great measure of freedom of action and freedom in the manner of executing orders and which primarily calls for independent daring, initiative and sense of responsibility.”'

drinchev 10y ago

100 times this article. I just posted the article on HN [1]. The "startup-scene" is somehow fake around here. 1 : https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12196525 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12196525

bogomipz 10y ago

Its amusing to see a Swede complaining about lack of top down management when Swedish culture and decision making is notoriously consensus based.

drinchev 10y ago
Shaun ( the author ) is British.
- bogomipz 10y ago
  Indeed and I missed this in his byline at the end. However my observation is still relevant here for someone so enthralled by the Swedish startup scene, complaining about Berlin's management culture strikes me as hypocritical.

hocuspocus 10y ago

The part about Stockholm being 10 years ahead of Berlin sounds very delusional to me. Salaries in Stockholm are lower on average, CoL are higher, and it's next to impossible to find an apartment there. Not exactly the best environment to attract talent.

uola 10y ago
I could very well see how Stockholm is 10 years ahead of Berlin in many areas, but maybe not that many were Berlin is ahead of Stockholm. It's just that it doesn't matter. Because Berlin is somewhere you can actually move to, while Stockholm would at least have to be compared to other unaffordable cities.
- kayoone 10y ago
  what areas as an example ? just genuinely curious
  - tormeh 10y ago
    London, Oslo, Munich, New York...
  - uola 10y ago
    Many, even mundane, things. Berlin apartments are a varying standard, many don't have district heating. Grocery stores closes early, aren't open on Sundays, have limited selection and don't accept credit cards (which I've heard is changing). It's fairly normal that the staff is 40+ and don't speak English. Mobile internet is expensive, you'll have to register and charging can take hours. Still uses paper tickets for most things. Overall Germany is more traditional, conservative and religious than Sweden and while Berlin might be an anomaly in Germany it's also the capital. Note that I don't think being ahead is necessarily a good thing and that much of the greatness of Berlin comes from being slightly crappy.
    - wolfgke 10y ago
      > Grocery stores [...] aren't open on Sundays This has to do with the Ladenschlussgesetz (there is no proper English term for this) which usually forbids that. In particular the German FDP (a German party that is somewhere between liberal and libertarian) wants to abolish this law but the churches lobby for upholding it. I personally would abolish it as soon as possible. > Grocery stores [...] don't accept credit cards This is because merchants have to pay some amount for any credit card transaction. So they have good reasons not to accept them. In Europe there exists a much better system: EC cards. Use them instead if you really don't want to use cash (which is much more anonymous and thus should be prefered). > Still uses paper tickets for most things. If you imagine the data trail that non-paper tickets leave behind you, I would rather suggest to start using paper tickets wherever you live (Germans are much more concerned about protection of privacy (Datenschutzgesetz) because of having two dictatorships on German ground in the 20th century of which one was only abolished about 25 years ago).

Noseshine 10y ago

What he means by "no middle management" probably is that people are left to their own devices with little oversight and direction. That sounds good - until you work in an environment where direction is missing. The worst job I ever had was getting paid to do whatever the hell I felt like. Everybody working on the same goal, in the same direction, is next to impossible to achieve, when it happens it's pure luck. It has nothing to do with the qualities of the individuals. Of course, this starts at the top - adding middle managers when the top doesn't direct adequately sure won't help. I worked for a startup in the dot com era that everybody knows, which was eventually sold for a large sum (not a website, infrastructure/OS). I saw it a lot - and I myself was guilty of doing it - hiring people with great qualifications but we (and I) had no idea what to do with them! We just hired them. We (and I) gave them no directions. I'm somewhat ashamed of how I myself failed back then, but on the other hand not really - at 20-something the experience just isn't there. Slightly related, I recommend this video for a perspective on "innovation": https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZTC_RxWN_xo https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZTC_RxWN_xo (The true history of Silicon Valley. TL;DR: Gigantic government funding for R&D during WWII made it possible, only then came private capital.)

raverbashing 10y ago

I disagree with some points. The hate for "no middle management" is laughable HOWEVER the "too many cooks" situation can definitely happen The German management style is built on many people agreeing at the same time and doing things as good as possible which is great when you're building a train network but not so much with software

elcapitan 10y ago
Not just management, but all parts of German society. It leads to a Merkel-ish leadership style with late, opportunistic decisions.
- hengheng 10y ago
  You could also call it a Volkswagen approach towards innovation. Never first to market, never anything rushed out, and do not stray away from the beaten path until the new thing has been implemented perfectly.
  - allendoerfer 10y ago
    Buying up every brand under the sun and cutting costs by putting the same window openers into their cars sounds reasonable to me. Tesla is innovative and all, so was Porsche. VW does not care and just buys you. I mean, they are running out of car companies to buy so they have to buy motorcycle manufacturers.
    - elcapitan 10y ago
      The original VW (the bug) was innovative, but then again, that was actually a Porsche (designed by Ferdinand Porsche) ;)
theoh 10y ago
I know I'm not supposed to mention The War, but according to John Boyd, there was a similar phenomenon in the German army which aided the success of Blitzkrieg tactics: 'According to General Gunther Blumentritt, such a scheme presupposes a common outlook based upon “a body of professional officers who have received exactly the same training during the long years of peace and with the same tactical education, the same way of thinking, identical speech, hence a body of officers to whom all tactical conceptions were fully clear.” Furthermore, a la General Blumentritt, it presupposes “an officers training institution which allows the subordinate a very great measure of freedom of action and freedom in the manner of executing orders and which primarily calls for independent daring, initiative and sense of responsibility.”'