4 ms·

This really hit home for me though I don't particularly care for the retelling of history as if it was a movie. I understand the need to give perspective in ord

This really hit home for me though I don't particularly care for the retelling of history as if it was a movie. I understand the need to give perspective in order to understand the effect that Europe had on Native Americans both in north and south america. I always relate it to an invasive species that out matches the an ecosystem and doesnt curb its hunger because there is no reason to. I find it particularly poetic how the Chief said with pride "We were the first Christian tribe". Christianity originating from the middle east with the new testimate being under European rule. Has been used countless times in europe to excuse genocide and invasion. Was brought by europeans under a guise of peace mission whom eventually went on to completely ravage two continents. Christianity even today is used to excuse persecution and oppress. Yet despite all of this, knowing it is not native gods and being on the brink of extinction and erasure from memory. He takes pride in the lasting faith in the tribe. And imagining him say those words I think of dedication and love. Im sensitive about this because I feel like I would be consudered a necessary sacrifice or even entertaining to dominate/exploit. This particular board tends to attract alpha mentalities in the startup industry So Im curious on your thoughts

einhverfr 10y ago
Christianity, like Islam, and Secular Humanism is fundamentally internationalist, holding itself to be the universal ideal of correctness. Christianity and Islam both came out of, effectively the Roman Empire (in fact both the Mosque and Cathedral were built based on the plans of the same classes of Roman buildings). Secular Humanism is effectively a reinterpretation of Calvinism along atheistic lines. As far as I can see, however, Orthodox Christianity didn't have the same history in this regard as Western Christianity did. Part of this was that the Eastern Empire lasted a lot longer, and part was that the spread occurred to Kiev and Novogorod under very different circumstances than it did to Denmark or the Franks. But in the West, the promise offered was that the Church (Roman) would help kings solidify power in return for conversion. It was from that promise that eventually the kings secured their independence by means of the reformation. And secular humanism is effectively an effort to banish competition to the state from the public square in this regard so it too is a further development of the same mistake.
- humanrebar 10y ago
  > Secular Humanism is effectively a reinterpretation of Calvinism along atheistic lines. Considering that predestination is a central theme of Calvinism, I have a hard time understanding this thought. Removing God from Calvinism doesn't leave one with much at all.
  - einhverfr 10y ago
    Without a mechanistic view of things, predestination is impossible. So without God, Calvinism gives us a sense of the universe as a great machine. Other cultures may see the universe as a great mountain or a great tree.....
    - humanrebar 10y ago
      A mechanicistic view is only necessary if God is mostly "hands off". Alternatively, God could be regularly be tweaking things to make sure his plan happens.
      - einhverfr 10y ago
        And yet Calvin himself rejected such a tweaking view regarding predestination. His argument for predestination was simply that some people are good enough and others aren't, and God knows who is good enough and who isn't. It's also worth noting that both Thomas Hobbes and JJ Rousseau came from Calvinist circles. So I don't think it is an exaggeration to say that the Hobbes/Rousseau (and those closely influenced by them, such as those of Locke) are effectively Calvinism as applied to society and clothed in secular rhetoric.
- ittekimasu 10y ago
  That is a very astute observation. Those of us who've seen secular humanist tenets of "rights", being cynically used for all sorts of geopolitical ends, will realize how easy it is to excite folk with such talking points. People don't realize the dangers of such universalist notions.

einhverfr 10y ago

Christianity, like Islam, and Secular Humanism is fundamentally internationalist, holding itself to be the universal ideal of correctness. Christianity and Islam both came out of, effectively the Roman Empire (in fact both the Mosque and Cathedral were built based on the plans of the same classes of Roman buildings). Secular Humanism is effectively a reinterpretation of Calvinism along atheistic lines. As far as I can see, however, Orthodox Christianity didn't have the same history in this regard as Western Christianity did. Part of this was that the Eastern Empire lasted a lot longer, and part was that the spread occurred to Kiev and Novogorod under very different circumstances than it did to Denmark or the Franks. But in the West, the promise offered was that the Church (Roman) would help kings solidify power in return for conversion. It was from that promise that eventually the kings secured their independence by means of the reformation. And secular humanism is effectively an effort to banish competition to the state from the public square in this regard so it too is a further development of the same mistake.

humanrebar 10y ago
> Secular Humanism is effectively a reinterpretation of Calvinism along atheistic lines. Considering that predestination is a central theme of Calvinism, I have a hard time understanding this thought. Removing God from Calvinism doesn't leave one with much at all.
- einhverfr 10y ago
  Without a mechanistic view of things, predestination is impossible. So without God, Calvinism gives us a sense of the universe as a great machine. Other cultures may see the universe as a great mountain or a great tree.....
  - humanrebar 10y ago
    A mechanicistic view is only necessary if God is mostly "hands off". Alternatively, God could be regularly be tweaking things to make sure his plan happens.
    - einhverfr 10y ago
      And yet Calvin himself rejected such a tweaking view regarding predestination. His argument for predestination was simply that some people are good enough and others aren't, and God knows who is good enough and who isn't. It's also worth noting that both Thomas Hobbes and JJ Rousseau came from Calvinist circles. So I don't think it is an exaggeration to say that the Hobbes/Rousseau (and those closely influenced by them, such as those of Locke) are effectively Calvinism as applied to society and clothed in secular rhetoric.
ittekimasu 10y ago
That is a very astute observation. Those of us who've seen secular humanist tenets of "rights", being cynically used for all sorts of geopolitical ends, will realize how easy it is to excite folk with such talking points. People don't realize the dangers of such universalist notions.