4 ms·

It quite disgusting that some people think Islam is above criticism, satire, and derision. People who over mockery are not worthy of respect and ought to be mo

It quite disgusting that some people think Islam is above criticism, satire, and derision. People who over mockery are not worthy of respect and ought to be mocked and shunned. We have the moral authority to mock Mohammed, Jesus, and any other figure people have killed for. No one should be willing to kill over satire.

Noos 10y ago
The point is more that the message of the satire is lost in the means of the satire. The satirists shows Mohammed weeping over deaths committed in his name without realizing that depicting him such is a blasphemous thing in the eyes of the very Muslims he wants to convince. If the point is just mockery and blasphemy, it should not be considered satire as it is useless. Mockery and blasphemy are tools to be used sparingly for satire's real purpose, which is to illuminate problems of the human condition and point out flaws or ways humans should change. What's worse now is originally satire was designed as an attack on prevailing and oppressive systems of the majority, but in this case is attacking a minority, and often one with little power in the actual society they exist in. The rich are very effective at taking the weapons aimed at them and making them ways to attack others.
- yequalsx 10y ago
  Sure, don't consider mockery and blasphemy satire. But consider that me thinking the Prophet Mohammed was a child raping asshole does not merit my death. That people get so offended by mocking something means it needs to be mocked more often.
- chroma 10y ago
  > The satirists shows Mohammed weeping over deaths committed in his name without realizing that depicting him such is a blasphemous thing in the eyes of the very Muslims he wants to convince. I'm sorry, but you missed the point. The surviving Charlie Hebdo staff knew that any depiction of Muhammad (even a favorable one) would provoke jihadists and Islamists. The cartoon was a message to those extremists: "We won't be cowed by your violence." If Charlie Hebdo had stopped cartooning the prophet after the attack, it would have sent a different message: Violent tactics work. > The rich are very effective at taking the weapons aimed at them and making them ways to attack others. I am compelled to call out this cheap rhetorical trick. The people who made these cartoons had actual weapons aimed at them. They were actually attacked, and most of them actually died.
  - Noos 10y ago
    Is the point saying "we wont be cowed" or is it to actually make muslims think about violence? Because "we won't be cowed" really does nothing to change anything, and might make things worse if they say this in a way that offends people that might otherwise be neutral or receptive to the message. The second part was no rhetorical trick. Satire has shifted from skewering the people in power to reinforcing them, and going after unpopular minorities. In the west, there's virtually no effective response for said minority if they go after the correct ones. If anything a Streisand effect can happen where even legitimately challenging the offense makes you look even worse and brings more popularity to the offending side. The Hebdo case was a statistical outlier if anything. In general, the west's idea that we no longer kill each other over blasphemy and speech has created a culture where the ones satired grin and bear it mostly, because we do not kill. Hebdo was a grim reminder that extremists do not play by that implicit code. The thing we should be thankful for in the west is that so few people break it.

Noos 10y ago

The point is more that the message of the satire is lost in the means of the satire. The satirists shows Mohammed weeping over deaths committed in his name without realizing that depicting him such is a blasphemous thing in the eyes of the very Muslims he wants to convince. If the point is just mockery and blasphemy, it should not be considered satire as it is useless. Mockery and blasphemy are tools to be used sparingly for satire's real purpose, which is to illuminate problems of the human condition and point out flaws or ways humans should change. What's worse now is originally satire was designed as an attack on prevailing and oppressive systems of the majority, but in this case is attacking a minority, and often one with little power in the actual society they exist in. The rich are very effective at taking the weapons aimed at them and making them ways to attack others.

yequalsx 10y ago
Sure, don't consider mockery and blasphemy satire. But consider that me thinking the Prophet Mohammed was a child raping asshole does not merit my death. That people get so offended by mocking something means it needs to be mocked more often.
chroma 10y ago
> The satirists shows Mohammed weeping over deaths committed in his name without realizing that depicting him such is a blasphemous thing in the eyes of the very Muslims he wants to convince. I'm sorry, but you missed the point. The surviving Charlie Hebdo staff knew that any depiction of Muhammad (even a favorable one) would provoke jihadists and Islamists. The cartoon was a message to those extremists: "We won't be cowed by your violence." If Charlie Hebdo had stopped cartooning the prophet after the attack, it would have sent a different message: Violent tactics work. > The rich are very effective at taking the weapons aimed at them and making them ways to attack others. I am compelled to call out this cheap rhetorical trick. The people who made these cartoons had actual weapons aimed at them. They were actually attacked, and most of them actually died.
- Noos 10y ago
  Is the point saying "we wont be cowed" or is it to actually make muslims think about violence? Because "we won't be cowed" really does nothing to change anything, and might make things worse if they say this in a way that offends people that might otherwise be neutral or receptive to the message. The second part was no rhetorical trick. Satire has shifted from skewering the people in power to reinforcing them, and going after unpopular minorities. In the west, there's virtually no effective response for said minority if they go after the correct ones. If anything a Streisand effect can happen where even legitimately challenging the offense makes you look even worse and brings more popularity to the offending side. The Hebdo case was a statistical outlier if anything. In general, the west's idea that we no longer kill each other over blasphemy and speech has created a culture where the ones satired grin and bear it mostly, because we do not kill. Hebdo was a grim reminder that extremists do not play by that implicit code. The thing we should be thankful for in the west is that so few people break it.