3 ms·

Firstly, poor analogy—English is a much superior language to Esperanto in terms information density over seconds per syllable in addition to being more expressi

by PeCaN 10y ago

Firstly, poor analogy—English is a much superior language to Esperanto in terms information density over seconds per syllable in addition to being more expressive (it's easier to talk about a wide variety of topics and abstractions). Possibly more importantly than that, it takes a lot of people to make a spoken language useful for doing business but far far fewer for a computer language. > instead of bemoaning the entirely rational decisions made by millions of junior and senior developers I think people are bemoaning the stupid shit and not the entirely rational decisions. JS makes the former a bit easy. > Python community was dissatisfied with JS and created Coffeescript Nitpicking, but the first CoffeeScript compiler was written in Ruby and the language was largely inspired by Ruby. > the Java community got class syntax added to ES6 Huh that's a new one pretty sure that's not just the Java community, given that JS developers have been independently inventing class libraries (starting with Prototype, if not earlier) for ages. > I'm sure Haskell has plenty of really cool things to bring to the table, but I've never heard of any of them Underscore, lazy.js, other popular JavaScript libraries have some Haskellisms; LiveScript is a fork of CoffeeScript that used to be moderately popular and very Haskelly; React takes a lot of ideas from Haskell; immutable.js is quite Haskellian…. I think you're just not looking. > all the Haskell community wants do is talk about how JavaScript sucks You can drive a go cart on the highway, and you can keep modding your go cart, but at some point you might want to not be driving a fucking go cart on the highway.

bitwize 10y ago
Ramda is arguably the most Haskelly JS library.
- splintercell 10y ago
  I am loving Ramda. I started integrating it for my React project, and I love how my code started collapsing.
Dr_tldr 10y ago
Pedantic, arrogant, and self-contradictory combined with poor reading comprehension and even worse social skills is the stereotype of the Haskell fanatic, and you're living up to it perfectly. No examples, no evidence, just bridge-burning and nitpicking. Whenever you ask people what Haskell can do that other languages can't, their answer usually reveals that they simply don't know many other languages very well. For instance, you're very confident about English being better than Esperanto, but you don't speak Esperanto, you've never studied it, and you're just repeating what you were told second-hand and combining it with a made up heuristic of value. All of that lying and shoddy thinking, just to undermine an analogy that could've been any language. Russian and Arawak are far more expressive than English, but you don't speak Russian, you speak English, because it's the popular choice. Anything else you say is post-hoc justification, since you don't know much about the alternatives. you're just rationalizing your contingent decision. Node and npm are superior to Haskell as an ecosystem for the backend, you can't run Haskell in browsers at all, and C++ is way more powerful for offline applications. So what is it you do again, other than have inadequate toolchains presided over by socially inept individuals? Name something vanilla React takes from Haskell that isn't in Lisp, Clojure, Elm, etc. I don't think you'll be able to do it, because A) you don't know much about React and B) Haskell just isn't that special. There's nothing wrong with that since good programmers care about concepts, not syntax, but you seem to be really threatened by the idea that Haskell at this point is little more than an oddity, like learning brainfuck or assembly. Functional programming is finally showing what it can accomplish, and the only people unhappy about that are people in the FP community who neither understand nor care what's happening beyond their fetid little pond.
- glogla 10y ago
  > Pedantic, arrogant, and self-contradictory combined with poor reading comprehension and even worse social skills is the stereotype of the Haskell fanatic, and you're living up to it perfectly. I'm not sure (s)he is the one.
- icebraining 10y ago
  "Personal attacks are not allowed on HN, even when someone is wrong." https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9835422 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9835422
- mightybyte 10y ago
  > No examples, no evidence I described a very specific example of something Haskell can do that JS cannot in this reddit thread: https://www.reddit.com/r/haskell/comments/4ujg5i/what_are_your_thoughts_on_the_static_type/d5r4clo https://www.reddit.com/r/haskell/comments/4ujg5i/what_are_yo... It is almost impossible for the Haskell metadata widget I described to have bugs. But I've seen production bugs in the corresponding JS code twice in the last few months. You simply cannot get the kind of correctness guarantees in JS that you have in Haskell.

by PeCaN 10y ago

bitwize 10y ago

Ramda is arguably the most Haskelly JS library.

splintercell 10y ago
I am loving Ramda. I started integrating it for my React project, and I love how my code started collapsing.

Dr_tldr 10y ago

Pedantic, arrogant, and self-contradictory combined with poor reading comprehension and even worse social skills is the stereotype of the Haskell fanatic, and you're living up to it perfectly. No examples, no evidence, just bridge-burning and nitpicking. Whenever you ask people what Haskell can do that other languages can't, their answer usually reveals that they simply don't know many other languages very well. For instance, you're very confident about English being better than Esperanto, but you don't speak Esperanto, you've never studied it, and you're just repeating what you were told second-hand and combining it with a made up heuristic of value. All of that lying and shoddy thinking, just to undermine an analogy that could've been any language. Russian and Arawak are far more expressive than English, but you don't speak Russian, you speak English, because it's the popular choice. Anything else you say is post-hoc justification, since you don't know much about the alternatives. you're just rationalizing your contingent decision. Node and npm are superior to Haskell as an ecosystem for the backend, you can't run Haskell in browsers at all, and C++ is way more powerful for offline applications. So what is it you do again, other than have inadequate toolchains presided over by socially inept individuals? Name something vanilla React takes from Haskell that isn't in Lisp, Clojure, Elm, etc. I don't think you'll be able to do it, because A) you don't know much about React and B) Haskell just isn't that special. There's nothing wrong with that since good programmers care about concepts, not syntax, but you seem to be really threatened by the idea that Haskell at this point is little more than an oddity, like learning brainfuck or assembly. Functional programming is finally showing what it can accomplish, and the only people unhappy about that are people in the FP community who neither understand nor care what's happening beyond their fetid little pond.

glogla 10y ago
> Pedantic, arrogant, and self-contradictory combined with poor reading comprehension and even worse social skills is the stereotype of the Haskell fanatic, and you're living up to it perfectly. I'm not sure (s)he is the one.
icebraining 10y ago
"Personal attacks are not allowed on HN, even when someone is wrong." https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9835422 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9835422
mightybyte 10y ago
> No examples, no evidence I described a very specific example of something Haskell can do that JS cannot in this reddit thread: https://www.reddit.com/r/haskell/comments/4ujg5i/what_are_your_thoughts_on_the_static_type/d5r4clo https://www.reddit.com/r/haskell/comments/4ujg5i/what_are_yo... It is almost impossible for the Haskell metadata widget I described to have bugs. But I've seen production bugs in the corresponding JS code twice in the last few months. You simply cannot get the kind of correctness guarantees in JS that you have in Haskell.