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An atheist, lefty dev from Turkey here. Never voted for Erdogan and never will. I'll dance when he legitimately GTFO, be it election, sickness, his death, legal
by gokhan 10y ago
An atheist, lefty dev from Turkey here. Never voted for Erdogan and never will. I'll dance when he legitimately GTFO, be it election, sickness, his death, legal trial, anything normal in life.
But not via a bloody coup. That night, half of the military elite turned against their own people, ordered opening fire to crowds and National Assembly. Some people died on the street in pajamas, think how impulsive people's response was against the coup.
Mentally, Turkey is a very separated country. There's almost no way to unite Erdogan followers with left wing secularists and Kurds. But we are all united against the coup and there are almost no doubt that Gulenists are behind this bloody adventure. For the last 17-18 years, various layers of Turkey came against Gulen and realized how brutal he is against any idea criticizing him. The last layer left was Erdogan's followers and they also saw the truth in the last 3 years in two different occasions.
Erdogan is still Erdogan, he was on his way to dictatorship and shows signs of using the situation in that way. His past actions makes us believe that. But we still can hope to overthrow him with an election, as we nearly did in June 2015. But there's no way to get rid of any general in power because of a bloody coup. Turkey got 3 successful coups in history and we can see clearly how those times held us back in the world scene. We don't want any more of that.
- it_learnses 10y agohow safe are you in turkey as a self described atheist?
- Kiro 10y agoTurkey is a secular nation with no official state religion.
- capkutay 10y agoAtheists in Turkey are safe but I wouldn't recommend going out into a city square touting atheism. I think a lot of people don't realize that you can live a western life in some Turkish cities without major issues. The risks come from being an activist against Erdogan.
- k__ 10y agoBut maybe the coup would have been the best that could happen. Now you're probably facing a Third Reich like Turkey :(
- elorant 10y agoAs a Greek I’m glad that Erdogan prevailed. At least with him in power we’ve been through a long period of relative peace of mind. I’m not sure that would be the case if the coup had succeeded.
- pinpinini 10y agoNice observation!
- rcheu 10y agoIs there any real proof that Gulen is behind the coup? I'ved heard a number of Turks both here and on Quora saying he is, but I've never seen any proof presented. It seems like it shouldn't be too hard to find given that the movement is supposedly huge.
- caio1982 10y agoI am not saying you are asking the wrong question of anything, and I am sorry if it reads as a snarky comment, but if it quack like a duck, walks like a duck and looks like a duck... it's shadowy politics after all, not physics. Would you expect the coup organizers to have written paper notes saying "yes, we did it"?
- marcoperaza 10y ago>I am not saying you are asking the wrong question of anything, and I am sorry if it reads as a snarky comment, but if it quack like a duck, walks like a duck and looks like a duck... it's shadowy politics after all, not physics. Would you expect the coup organizers to have written paper notes saying "yes, we did it"? Given that all of the previous military coups in Turkey were carried out by the secularist military establishment, you need to present evidence beyond accusations that the Gulenist movement, an Islamist movement, is behind this one. Show us the quacking and walking.
- afsina 10y agoFor quacking, http://www.city-journal.org/html/who-fethullah-gülen-13504.html http://www.city-journal.org/html/who-fethullah-gülen-13504.h... check paragraph of quotation from a Gulen's leaked speech. For walking, multiple sources confirms that for years, they stole questions for army and police college entrance exams. Of course also the statements of coup officials.
- marcoperaza 10y agoAgain, given that the all previous military coups have been conducted by secularists, you're gonna need to provide specific evidence that the coup was planned by the Gulenists. The quotation you point to has nothing to do with the coup at all, it's from the 90s and describes a totally different hypothetical situation, one in which his supporters have seized control of all state institutions. That is clearly not the case. It's Erdogan's AKP that has gradually seized control of all institutions in Turkey.
- tamana 10y agoDo you think you'd be alive as an atheist in Turkey if the past coups had not happened?
- gokhan 10y agoI would be in a much better condition. Coup of 1980 destroyed Turkish left and opened the door to rightwing extremists. In 14-15 years after the coup, fundamentalists and nationalists pretty much seized the bureaucracy, which led to the raise of Erdogan and deterioration of secularism.
- GlennS 10y agoWhat makes you so confident it was Gulenists?
- mrtksn 10y agoI think this is a very valid question. For me, the undeniable fingerprint of Gulenists is the fact that police chiefs dismissed for affiliation with Gulen were caught inside the military tanks. There are videos of it and I don't see any other logical explanation for catching suspicious civilians in military vehicles during a coup. For people who followed the last 10 years of the Turkish politics, the Gulenist affiliation is obvious but I think it is still very hard to explain it to people who are exposed for the first time. Before Erdogan, the Turkish military was actively cracking down on the Gulenist infiltration and it is 40 years old subject with hard to believe but proved multiple times conspiracies. Gulenists always abuse the benefit of doubt and as a secretive cult usually the evidences against them have some kind of explanation and all these strange coincidences are tagget as normal. After all, there is nothing stopping the Lottery from winning on the 1 2 3 4 5 6 numbers every time, its just improbable so it is not 100.000000% guarantied to be fraud.
- stale2002 10y agoAnd what happens if Erdogan refuses to give up power, despite any elections? Will you still support "democracy" then or will you be in favor of a coup?
- afsina 10y agoHow likely do you think it is? To me extremely low.
- JohnLeTigre 10y agoYou would need a military who's primary mission is to uphold democracy in a non partisan way, much like the Turkish army since Ataturk's Reforms.
- gokhan 10y agoIn a normal democracy, he'll get arrested for doing that, no? :) Of course, if he refuses than he'll sure have a military power backing him, be it the police force or a part of the military or both. And that's just another coup, I expect the same response we showed against Jul 15th coup attempt: uprising and sane part of the military's action.