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> You and I may not like it, but the vast majority of the population supports the views and policies of the AKP and Erdogan. Erdogan succeeds in part because h

> You and I may not like it, but the vast majority of the population supports the views and policies of the AKP and Erdogan. Erdogan succeeds in part because he attacks democracy. The whole reason Erdogan (with ISIS's help) attacks the Kurds is because "they" deprived Erdogan's party of a parliamentary majority for the first time since 2002. [1] [2] So his military attacks his own cities. [3] (The Erdogan/ISIS connection is obvious. [4]) Erdogan's been threatening academics for a long time. For example, detaining them for a petition for peace, hacking/blocking it so people can't read it. [5] Erdogan destroying his opposition isn't democratic. [1] https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2015/nov/18/turkey-cut-islamic-state-supply-lines-erdogan-isis https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2015/nov/18/turkey... [2] http://america.aljazeera.com/articles/2015/7/29/turkey-launches-heaviest-assault-yet-on-pkk.html http://america.aljazeera.com/articles/2015/7/29/turkey-launc... [3] http://www.france24.com/en/20160714-turkey-unesco-heritage-sites-damage-kurdish-diyarbakir-sur http://www.france24.com/en/20160714-turkey-unesco-heritage-s... [4] http://time.com/3980085/these-5-stats-explain-turkeys-war-on-isis-and-the-kurds/ http://time.com/3980085/these-5-stats-explain-turkeys-war-on... [5] https://news.vice.com/article/turkey-detains-21-academics-for-peace-for-anti-violence-petition?utm_source=vicenewsfb https://news.vice.com/article/turkey-detains-21-academics-fo...

the_af 10y ago
Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't the HDP (and other anti-Erdogan political parties, if I understood the news correctly) oppose the latest coup? How could this be, if they believed Erdogan was such a major threat to democracy?
- vkou 10y ago
  If they mutely oppose the coup, before it concludes, and the coup wins, then they might well not get the worst of it. They can also do a 180 after the fact - the coup will be too busy purging the AKP. If they support the coup, this undermines their legitimacy, and in the likely case that Erdogan wins, they will immediately be purged, along with the coup planners. Of course, that can happen regardless. There's an old Soviet joke about this - three men are in a cell, and try to figure out why they are there. It turns out that one criticized a minister, another praised that same minister, and the third is that minister.
- akiselev 10y ago
  Just because they are the opposition doesn't mean that they would take power in the event of a coup, which creates huge political and social upheaval, especially with the way the Turkish military does it historically. The last time they led a coup, in 1980, over half a million people were arrested and the political board was entirely reshuffled. The opposition may not have much power right now but they'd have none at all if the military took over so it's all about theit survival instinct.
  - the_af 10y ago
    Fully understood. I'm Latin American and believe me, I have no love at all for military coups. My point was, if Erdogan is such a threat to democracy, how come his political opponents -- such as the pro-Kurdish HDP and leftist parties -- didn't support this military coup, which was allegedly in favor of liberty and secularism and everything good that Erdogan seems to be against? Maybe these opposition parties were aware that military coups are seldom democratic, are often followed by arbitrary imprisonment and summary executions, and maybe it wasn't obvious that this rebel army faction was a better and more democratic alternative to Erdogan?
    - akiselev 10y ago
      A sibling to my last reply states it best: coups are risky and if the opposition chose the wrong side they'd be the first to go in a large scale purge. The resulting political landscape would be significantly worse for everyone. If the plotters had managed to capture Erdogan early on in the attempt and one of the coup leaders went on national television to show Erdogan's dismembered head then maybe, maybe the opposition could have gone along without taking an unacceptable risk.
toyg 10y ago
> The whole reason Erdogan (with ISIS's help) attacks the Kurds Erdogan attacked Kurds long before he lost his parliamentary majority. He attacks them because it's politically convenient for him to have a unifying enemy (most non-AKP Turks do believe the Kurds should renounce violence and drop their separatist demands). In fact, the HDP reached such a high level of support in those elections because a lot of people finally saw through the game and were tired of playing it. I don't disagree that Erdogan all but helped IS/Daesh against Assad and Kurds, I'm just saying that his attitude towards the Kurdish problem has been more or less the same since the '90s.

the_af 10y ago

Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't the HDP (and other anti-Erdogan political parties, if I understood the news correctly) oppose the latest coup? How could this be, if they believed Erdogan was such a major threat to democracy?

vkou 10y ago
If they mutely oppose the coup, before it concludes, and the coup wins, then they might well not get the worst of it. They can also do a 180 after the fact - the coup will be too busy purging the AKP. If they support the coup, this undermines their legitimacy, and in the likely case that Erdogan wins, they will immediately be purged, along with the coup planners. Of course, that can happen regardless. There's an old Soviet joke about this - three men are in a cell, and try to figure out why they are there. It turns out that one criticized a minister, another praised that same minister, and the third is that minister.
akiselev 10y ago
Just because they are the opposition doesn't mean that they would take power in the event of a coup, which creates huge political and social upheaval, especially with the way the Turkish military does it historically. The last time they led a coup, in 1980, over half a million people were arrested and the political board was entirely reshuffled. The opposition may not have much power right now but they'd have none at all if the military took over so it's all about theit survival instinct.
- the_af 10y ago
  Fully understood. I'm Latin American and believe me, I have no love at all for military coups. My point was, if Erdogan is such a threat to democracy, how come his political opponents -- such as the pro-Kurdish HDP and leftist parties -- didn't support this military coup, which was allegedly in favor of liberty and secularism and everything good that Erdogan seems to be against? Maybe these opposition parties were aware that military coups are seldom democratic, are often followed by arbitrary imprisonment and summary executions, and maybe it wasn't obvious that this rebel army faction was a better and more democratic alternative to Erdogan?
  - akiselev 10y ago
    A sibling to my last reply states it best: coups are risky and if the opposition chose the wrong side they'd be the first to go in a large scale purge. The resulting political landscape would be significantly worse for everyone. If the plotters had managed to capture Erdogan early on in the attempt and one of the coup leaders went on national television to show Erdogan's dismembered head then maybe, maybe the opposition could have gone along without taking an unacceptable risk.

toyg 10y ago

> The whole reason Erdogan (with ISIS's help) attacks the Kurds Erdogan attacked Kurds long before he lost his parliamentary majority. He attacks them because it's politically convenient for him to have a unifying enemy (most non-AKP Turks do believe the Kurds should renounce violence and drop their separatist demands). In fact, the HDP reached such a high level of support in those elections because a lot of people finally saw through the game and were tired of playing it. I don't disagree that Erdogan all but helped IS/Daesh against Assad and Kurds, I'm just saying that his attitude towards the Kurdish problem has been more or less the same since the '90s.