4 ms·

I reserve the right to question the competency of anyone at any time concerning any topic, whether they are considered an expert or not. I'd rather that have th

by talmand 10y ago

I reserve the right to question the competency of anyone at any time concerning any topic, whether they are considered an expert or not. I'd rather that have that attitude than having "he knows what he's doing so he must be right" way of thinking.

mikeash 10y ago
And I'd rather have "I know way less about this stuff than they do, so until I see evidence otherwise I'll assume problems I see are due to my lack of understanding, not theirs" than either of those. I don't have a problem with skepticism or questioning competency. I do have a problem with the attitude that a few minutes of thought and an obvious objection is sufficient to start questioning competency.
- talmand 10y ago
  At what point would you start asking questions then? Because questioning anyone about their work is us asking for them to show us how they are right. That is questioning their competency on the topic at hand instead of just accepting what they say at face value. I won't apologize for requesting someone to show me how they are right about a topic I know little or nothing about because the simple fact that I know little or nothing of the topic doesn't let me understand they know what they are talking about. Lots of experts get things wrong all the time. If we just accept the results of experts without questioning then how do we know they are wrong? Wait for another expert to take notice and bother to care to check?
  - nzjrs 10y ago
    Give us an example of something you are an expert in, and we can submit our most shallow tedious questions. It should be fun!
    - talmand 10y ago
      I get them every day already. I, for one, am not offended by it. EDIT: actually, I'm exaggerating here. I don't get them every day literally, but I encounter them quite a bit.
  - mikeash 10y ago
    Start asking questions right away. Just do it from a perspective of "I don't understand this" rather than "you didn't think of this." I am not saying that experts are infallible or that we should consider them as such. I'm just saying that when you've spent five minutes coming up with a problem in a scientific paper that has years of work behind it, your quest for information should reflect the likely possibility that the wrongness is on your end. Edit: note that there is no question in the original post I object to. I'm definitely not criticizing questions. If anything, I'm criticizing not asking questions.
    - talmand 10y ago
      Then it would seem we are likely saying much the same thing in a different way. I apologize for my confusion.
      - mikeash 10y ago
        No problem, I'm sure I could have been more clear. Glad to settle into agreement!
  - richmarr 10y ago
    > At what point would you start asking questions then? mikeash has already answered that. He's fine with questions. You're arguing against a straw man of blind obedience to authority figures that (as far as I can see) nobody has made.
deleted 10y ago
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skybrian 10y ago
You'll get better results showing no attitude at all. Just asking straight questions can result in people revealing good information.
- talmand 10y ago
  Asking questions is what I'm talking about. Going with "he knows what he's doing" is not asking questions.
  - skybrian 10y ago
    Well, you said you're going to question their competency, which is different. Asking question straight-up (for information, assuming competency) is different from asking hostile questions. You get better results if you can manage to avoid triggering defensiveness.
    - talmand 10y ago
      No, it's just that I feel that asking someone questions about their work has an element of questioning their competency. I encounter it all the time with my work and it doesn't bother me. I expect it. I see it as a way for both sides to learn.
      - DasIch 10y ago
        You could simply ask how you make sure that no oxygen could enter, leave or react with the crystal. That's a simple and obvious question that nobody will fault you for asking. There is a huge difference between that simple question and assuming they didn't make sure of that and the research has to be flawed or the researchers incompetent because of it. If there isn't a good answer to a simple genuine question, you can still go that step further and start questioning competency.

by talmand 10y ago

mikeash 10y ago

And I'd rather have "I know way less about this stuff than they do, so until I see evidence otherwise I'll assume problems I see are due to my lack of understanding, not theirs" than either of those. I don't have a problem with skepticism or questioning competency. I do have a problem with the attitude that a few minutes of thought and an obvious objection is sufficient to start questioning competency.

talmand 10y ago
At what point would you start asking questions then? Because questioning anyone about their work is us asking for them to show us how they are right. That is questioning their competency on the topic at hand instead of just accepting what they say at face value. I won't apologize for requesting someone to show me how they are right about a topic I know little or nothing about because the simple fact that I know little or nothing of the topic doesn't let me understand they know what they are talking about. Lots of experts get things wrong all the time. If we just accept the results of experts without questioning then how do we know they are wrong? Wait for another expert to take notice and bother to care to check?
- nzjrs 10y ago
  Give us an example of something you are an expert in, and we can submit our most shallow tedious questions. It should be fun!
  - talmand 10y ago
    I get them every day already. I, for one, am not offended by it. EDIT: actually, I'm exaggerating here. I don't get them every day literally, but I encounter them quite a bit.
- mikeash 10y ago
  Start asking questions right away. Just do it from a perspective of "I don't understand this" rather than "you didn't think of this." I am not saying that experts are infallible or that we should consider them as such. I'm just saying that when you've spent five minutes coming up with a problem in a scientific paper that has years of work behind it, your quest for information should reflect the likely possibility that the wrongness is on your end. Edit: note that there is no question in the original post I object to. I'm definitely not criticizing questions. If anything, I'm criticizing not asking questions.
  - talmand 10y ago
    Then it would seem we are likely saying much the same thing in a different way. I apologize for my confusion.
    - mikeash 10y ago
      No problem, I'm sure I could have been more clear. Glad to settle into agreement!
- richmarr 10y ago
  > At what point would you start asking questions then? mikeash has already answered that. He's fine with questions. You're arguing against a straw man of blind obedience to authority figures that (as far as I can see) nobody has made.

deleted 10y ago

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skybrian 10y ago

You'll get better results showing no attitude at all. Just asking straight questions can result in people revealing good information.

talmand 10y ago
Asking questions is what I'm talking about. Going with "he knows what he's doing" is not asking questions.
- skybrian 10y ago
  Well, you said you're going to question their competency, which is different. Asking question straight-up (for information, assuming competency) is different from asking hostile questions. You get better results if you can manage to avoid triggering defensiveness.
  - talmand 10y ago
    No, it's just that I feel that asking someone questions about their work has an element of questioning their competency. I encounter it all the time with my work and it doesn't bother me. I expect it. I see it as a way for both sides to learn.
    - DasIch 10y ago
      You could simply ask how you make sure that no oxygen could enter, leave or react with the crystal. That's a simple and obvious question that nobody will fault you for asking. There is a huge difference between that simple question and assuming they didn't make sure of that and the research has to be flawed or the researchers incompetent because of it. If there isn't a good answer to a simple genuine question, you can still go that step further and start questioning competency.