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I don't think there's that implication at all. I think what's happening is that this component of patriarchy isn't really a rallying point for many people. That

I don't think there's that implication at all. I think what's happening is that this component of patriarchy isn't really a rallying point for many people. That is, there are a lot of people who are vocally upset about other components of patriarchy in which men actually are the primary antagonists, e.g. rape culture. That does not, however, imply that man are the antagonists, nor that women are the victims of every component of patriarchy. I think more people should be pissed off about this component, too. A man shouldn't feel obligated to be masculine, nor a provider, nor a protector, nor anything he doesn't want to be. Truthfully, more of HN should empathize with this as well. I would be surprised if a very large portion of us didn't grow up being called a variety of epithets for being less athletic, more booky, less masculine and therefore less valuable than the general population. Ironically enough, it's exactly this component of patriarchy that leads to the aggressive anti-feminist views seen all over this board. You can call it matriarchy if you want, I don't really care, except that a) no one will know what you're talking about and b) we don't live in a matriarchal society so it doesn't make sense.

makomk 10y ago
What's happening is that, as you point out, people who claim to be fighting the patriarchy are not in fact interested in fighting against problems where men are the ones being hurt rather than the antagonists. However, they lump both categories together under one "patriarchy" label as a way of demanding that they be treated as though they were tackling both, arguing that because men's problems are caused by the patriarchy and they're attacking it, they're the ones really trying to solve those problems. In fact, I've seen them go even further and accuse people who make a fuss those problems of being the ones who don't actually care about them, because if they really cared they'd recognise that feminism was the movement that was actually trying to solve those problems and copy its approach of refusing to do anything about them. That, in fact, this proves that said activists are misogynists who are just out to attack feminism.
- ethanbond 10y ago
  That's fair. I've never felt that I was being blamed for anything and every feminist I know (including myself) explicitly includes these types of issues in their scope of problems. Obviously it seems Tumblr-inas get awfully large soapboxes to stand upon, but my personal experience indicates they are outliers.
DefaultUserHN 10y ago
>A man shouldn't feel obligated to be masculine, nor a provider, nor a protector, nor anything he doesn't want to be. Well, if a man doesn't want to provide for his kids, then who should provide for his kids? Should a man force his wife to provide for his kids while he sits around doing nothing? Or should a man force the government to provide for his kids?
- tomp 10y ago
  Other options include (1) not having kids, and (2) finding a partner (possibly a woman) who's willing to provide.

makomk 10y ago

What's happening is that, as you point out, people who claim to be fighting the patriarchy are not in fact interested in fighting against problems where men are the ones being hurt rather than the antagonists. However, they lump both categories together under one "patriarchy" label as a way of demanding that they be treated as though they were tackling both, arguing that because men's problems are caused by the patriarchy and they're attacking it, they're the ones really trying to solve those problems. In fact, I've seen them go even further and accuse people who make a fuss those problems of being the ones who don't actually care about them, because if they really cared they'd recognise that feminism was the movement that was actually trying to solve those problems and copy its approach of refusing to do anything about them. That, in fact, this proves that said activists are misogynists who are just out to attack feminism.

ethanbond 10y ago
That's fair. I've never felt that I was being blamed for anything and every feminist I know (including myself) explicitly includes these types of issues in their scope of problems. Obviously it seems Tumblr-inas get awfully large soapboxes to stand upon, but my personal experience indicates they are outliers.

DefaultUserHN 10y ago

>A man shouldn't feel obligated to be masculine, nor a provider, nor a protector, nor anything he doesn't want to be. Well, if a man doesn't want to provide for his kids, then who should provide for his kids? Should a man force his wife to provide for his kids while he sits around doing nothing? Or should a man force the government to provide for his kids?

tomp 10y ago
Other options include (1) not having kids, and (2) finding a partner (possibly a woman) who's willing to provide.