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As mentioned in the article and countless times on HN: Many people in Silicon Valley are biased against Lyft because they think that ride-sharing will be a win

by colmvp 10y ago

As mentioned in the article and countless times on HN: Many people in Silicon Valley are biased against Lyft because they think that ride-sharing will be a winner-takes-all market. They are probably wrong. Once a ride-sharing company gets to a certain level of reliability and waiting times are short enough, there is little benefit to using one service over another. Uber and Lyft will both be able to claim a lead in lots of cities, and both will be around for a while. Furthermore, if you live in a city with both, it's not uncommon to talk with drivers who work for both services. I will also add that the need for expansion has toned down the quirkiness of Lyft from when they first out a few years back. The giant furry mustache was replaced. No more fist bumps. And the drivers I encounter are generally less talkative and charismatic. That's not meant to criticize the company, but AFAIC, there is just a lot less separating the two companies. So playing it slow and sane might be second in the long run, but if they keep expanding I don't see them not eating into Uber's market and climbing their way up. Well, unless of course Uber's investment into driverless cars is able to come to fruition within our lifetime.

Declanomous 10y ago
I have no idea what the situation is like in the rest of the country, but Lyft seems to do pretty well in Chicago. The drivers I speak to tend to use both Lyft and Uber, but prefer Lyft overall; Lyft allows tipping, and Uber customers are allegedly pickier. I'd say most people I know use one or the other exclusively. I think Uber actually tends to be cheaper at busier times than Lyft if you tip when you use Lyft. The average Uber vehicle seems newer than Lyft vehicle as well. Either way, I don't think Lyft is at much of a competitive disadvantage in Chicago, at least in the 20-something crowd. The older individuals I know are much more likely to use Uber exclusively, and use the features that are not present in Lyft, like calling a standard taxi, or Uber Black. It's all anecdotal of course, but I personally wouldn't worry too much about Lyft. I think the fact that they appear to allow a broader range of vehicles and drivers is a competitive advantage.
- lsseckman 10y ago
  Chicagoan here, lots of drivers I've spoken with prefer Lyft. Most reference the great support they get from Lyft corporate.
  - toomuchtodo 10y ago
    I live in Chicago part time, and whenever getting a ride from Ohare, the drivers prefer I hail with Lyft instead of Uber. As such, the dude abides.
    - brlewis 10y ago
      Lyft is nice to drivers -> Drivers ask customers to hail with Lyft -> Niceness wins
- neeleshs 10y ago
  Allowing tipping is why I don't use Lyft.
  - buu700 10y ago
    Exactly this, to be honest. I use Lyft whenever Uber is too far away, but always prefer Uber given the choice primarily for this reason. (That, and Uber has a superior airport pickup UI, last I checked.) It's not about money; it's just a UX thing. I don't like having to remember to go back into the app after the fact to pay more to not look like a jerk. I'd rather Lyft just raise their rates by 15% and kill the option to tip, or at least give me an opt-in setting to auto-tip (and factor the auto-tip into fare estimates).
    - st3v3r 10y ago
      "I don't like having to remember to go back into the app after the fact to pay more to not look like a jerk" But you don't. The driver doesn't see that you tipped or not.
  - ethanbond 10y ago
    As opposed to saying drivers are already getting tipped despite the fact that there's no percentage of the fare that's set aside and preserved from Uber's cut ie they're not being tipped?
    - neeleshs 10y ago
      I am against tipping as a practice in general. Tipping or not tipping results in preferential treatment, subtle attitude changes, depending on the amount tipped and so on. It's more about the social discomfort I have around tipping, rather than the money itself.
      - ethanbond 10y ago
        That's why you tip at the end?
bryanlarsen 10y ago
The experience I witnessed in my city (Ottawa, Canada) definitely leaves the second place entrant Lyft as the winner. I imagine the same narrative plays out in many other markets. - Uber enters the market - ugly battle ensues, with Uber and the taxi union embracing their associated stereotypes. - consumers initially sympathetic to either Uber or the taxi union or both lose all sympathy due to flagrant misbehaviour and law-breaking from both parties - city hall hammers out a compromise that both Uber and the taxi union grudgingly but mean spiritedly accept - Lyft comes in the day the compromise takes effect - everybody switches to Lyft The last two points haven't happened yet in Ottawa, the new laws come into effect Sept 30. I believe they are a solid prediction though.
- burkaman 10y ago
  Most people won't pay any attention to the political battle though, will they? They'll just pay attention to whether there's an Uber available when they need it, and how much it costs. If those two things are acceptable, I don't see most people switching.
  - bryanlarsen 10y ago
    But everybody keeps saying that network effects are important, that Uber is going to win because of mind share and network effects. So either availability and cost is more important than mind share and network effects -> Lyft wins because they didn't spend millions opening the market but are big enough to be basically equivalent to Uber on cost and availability. Or network effects and mind share is more important -> Lyft wins because they're the 'good guys' who didn't participate in the Pyrrhic battles in both local and global media. I suspect that you're right, availability and cost is more important. However colmvp's comment indicates that availability and cost is basically equivalent in major markets, making the political battle the major differentiating point. For me taxis have a huge availability advantage due to taxi stands at work and at the airport, so I'll continue to use them there and Lyft elsewhere.
- paublyrne 10y ago
  What's the reason for the last step?
nojvek 10y ago
I exclusively just use lyft. I've always found that underdog companies give better service.

by colmvp 10y ago

Declanomous 10y ago

I have no idea what the situation is like in the rest of the country, but Lyft seems to do pretty well in Chicago. The drivers I speak to tend to use both Lyft and Uber, but prefer Lyft overall; Lyft allows tipping, and Uber customers are allegedly pickier. I'd say most people I know use one or the other exclusively. I think Uber actually tends to be cheaper at busier times than Lyft if you tip when you use Lyft. The average Uber vehicle seems newer than Lyft vehicle as well. Either way, I don't think Lyft is at much of a competitive disadvantage in Chicago, at least in the 20-something crowd. The older individuals I know are much more likely to use Uber exclusively, and use the features that are not present in Lyft, like calling a standard taxi, or Uber Black. It's all anecdotal of course, but I personally wouldn't worry too much about Lyft. I think the fact that they appear to allow a broader range of vehicles and drivers is a competitive advantage.

lsseckman 10y ago
Chicagoan here, lots of drivers I've spoken with prefer Lyft. Most reference the great support they get from Lyft corporate.
- toomuchtodo 10y ago
  I live in Chicago part time, and whenever getting a ride from Ohare, the drivers prefer I hail with Lyft instead of Uber. As such, the dude abides.
  - brlewis 10y ago
    Lyft is nice to drivers -> Drivers ask customers to hail with Lyft -> Niceness wins
neeleshs 10y ago
Allowing tipping is why I don't use Lyft.
- buu700 10y ago
  Exactly this, to be honest. I use Lyft whenever Uber is too far away, but always prefer Uber given the choice primarily for this reason. (That, and Uber has a superior airport pickup UI, last I checked.) It's not about money; it's just a UX thing. I don't like having to remember to go back into the app after the fact to pay more to not look like a jerk. I'd rather Lyft just raise their rates by 15% and kill the option to tip, or at least give me an opt-in setting to auto-tip (and factor the auto-tip into fare estimates).
  - st3v3r 10y ago
    "I don't like having to remember to go back into the app after the fact to pay more to not look like a jerk" But you don't. The driver doesn't see that you tipped or not.
- ethanbond 10y ago
  As opposed to saying drivers are already getting tipped despite the fact that there's no percentage of the fare that's set aside and preserved from Uber's cut ie they're not being tipped?
  - neeleshs 10y ago
    I am against tipping as a practice in general. Tipping or not tipping results in preferential treatment, subtle attitude changes, depending on the amount tipped and so on. It's more about the social discomfort I have around tipping, rather than the money itself.
    - ethanbond 10y ago
      That's why you tip at the end?

bryanlarsen 10y ago

The experience I witnessed in my city (Ottawa, Canada) definitely leaves the second place entrant Lyft as the winner. I imagine the same narrative plays out in many other markets. - Uber enters the market - ugly battle ensues, with Uber and the taxi union embracing their associated stereotypes. - consumers initially sympathetic to either Uber or the taxi union or both lose all sympathy due to flagrant misbehaviour and law-breaking from both parties - city hall hammers out a compromise that both Uber and the taxi union grudgingly but mean spiritedly accept - Lyft comes in the day the compromise takes effect - everybody switches to Lyft The last two points haven't happened yet in Ottawa, the new laws come into effect Sept 30. I believe they are a solid prediction though.

burkaman 10y ago
Most people won't pay any attention to the political battle though, will they? They'll just pay attention to whether there's an Uber available when they need it, and how much it costs. If those two things are acceptable, I don't see most people switching.
- bryanlarsen 10y ago
  But everybody keeps saying that network effects are important, that Uber is going to win because of mind share and network effects. So either availability and cost is more important than mind share and network effects -> Lyft wins because they didn't spend millions opening the market but are big enough to be basically equivalent to Uber on cost and availability. Or network effects and mind share is more important -> Lyft wins because they're the 'good guys' who didn't participate in the Pyrrhic battles in both local and global media. I suspect that you're right, availability and cost is more important. However colmvp's comment indicates that availability and cost is basically equivalent in major markets, making the political battle the major differentiating point. For me taxis have a huge availability advantage due to taxi stands at work and at the airport, so I'll continue to use them there and Lyft elsewhere.
paublyrne 10y ago
What's the reason for the last step?

nojvek 10y ago

I exclusively just use lyft. I've always found that underdog companies give better service.