6 ms·

I imagine there are a lot factors. Time spent together skyrocketing, financial instability causing stress, and the fact that a lot of men tie their identity to

I imagine there are a lot factors. Time spent together skyrocketing, financial instability causing stress, and the fact that a lot of men tie their identity to their employment so strongly. Becoming unemployed is immensely turbulent in pretty much every way.

LA_Banker 10y ago
>and the fact that a lot of men tie their identity to their employment so strongly. That's a really interesting point, especially in light of the study pointing out that it's moreso job status that's a risk factor than money problems. One would normally think the two would go hand-in-hand in terms of a divorce autopsy. But as you (and the study) point out, there's very much distinct.
Thedis 10y ago
I am making $340 to $350 per hour by online working on facebook. i was jobless a year ago , but now i am getting my own salary by doing this online job. This salary is enough for me to meet my expences. I am really thankful to God. If you want to make this salary like my , you can check my details.⤵ CLICK THIS LINKHERE HERE===>>>>>>> www.WageNeT9.ℂom
acangiano 10y ago
> a lot of men tie their identity to their employment so strongly I wonder if the other side of the coin isn't that wives tend to respect their husbands less when these earn less than they do. It could be because it violates a social norm caused by society's gender role expectations. Research found that even employed men who earn a bit less than their wives are affected by higher divorce rate. So we can cast these men as insecure and emasculated, or it could be a mix of both men and women's reaction to the situation, along with many other variables that you've hinted at.
- anonbiocoward 10y ago
  > it violates a social norm This story hit me pretty hard. While I was in medical school, my wife's family, especially her mother, routinely encouraged her to divorce me. We had two small kids, and I had gone on job interviews and seen the offers I was getting without a graduate degree, despite a BS in physics and 7 years of experience. It was obvious to everyone that medical school was the right course of action in the long term but it would be hard. I didn't realize it would get harder when her family started jumping on any opportunity to point out my "temporary financial embarrassment". On a day-to-day basis, she was working 40 hours a week and while med school was paid for, and I had a small stipend, her paycheck was better. And cognitively, she understood that. But her brothers and mother, and eventually her father told her to "get rid of him". We stuck it out. They wonder why we don't fly across country to visit them much...
  - vonklaus 10y ago
    Interesting. Clearly there were hardships involved and getting an MD is a non-trivial financial and time commitment. However, at least in popular culture, an MD is a highly respected career path and often the joked about target for 'gold diggers'. Sure, it isn't marry a student, but it is a pretty well regarded track socially, financially and educationally.
  - reitanqild 10y ago
    Impressed that you and your wife stuck together! Bet your kids will be too. My father used to quote someone that "the best a man can do for his kids are to love their mother." And: I feel sorry that this can actually happen to people.
    - zaroth 10y ago
      Thank you for that reply!
  - twelve40 10y ago
    Wow, it must have been such a pain going through all that! Good job handling the pressure, hope it only gets better from then on.
thrway2670 10y ago
Having your wife discover she's a lesbian after 15 years is another way. Ask how I know. Never again.
DominikR 10y ago
> and the fact that a lot of men tie their identity to their employment so strongly At least this part is nothing new. Men have always (up until now and I'd argue that this is still true today) tied their identity, masculinity and even self-worth as a human being to their profession as society expected men contribute the necessary resources to their families in order to support wife & children. If a man couldn't provide the resources anymore he usually lost his value and function to his family and society.
- DefaultUserHN 10y ago
  Will your kids still love you even though you can't provide for them? Will they look down on you because they're starving and you are not competent enough to feed them? When they look around, they see other dads being able to feed their own kids, and they ask themselves, "Why is it that my dad can not feed them?" Will your kids look down on you because of this? Is the patriarchy forcing men to tie their identity to their ability to provide for their own kids? Or do men understands naturally that if they can't provide for their kids, then they must be pretty incompetent, and then they feels bad about it, naturally, because they love their kids. And then their kids look down on them, because "all the other dads can feed their children, when can't my dad feed me?"
MollyR 10y ago
I was wondering why men tie their identity to employment so much. Is it because society expects them to be providers, and ridicules men who don't ?
- ethanbond 10y ago
  I'd assume so. As much as HN likes to ridicule the notion of "the patriarchy," this is a component of it that's awfully harmful to men.
  - karmajunkie 10y ago
    Yes absolutely. Sexism harms everyone.
  - oldmanjay 10y ago
    There is a vast difference between ridiculing something and not accepting it on faith solely because very passionate people make assertions about it.
    - ethanbond 10y ago
      Sure, but that's my point. I think a lot of men on here have probably felt this effect. If it's not from "the patriarchy," or something similar by a different name, then what is it from? You don't have to think that, say, women's fashion changes faster than men's fashion because "the patriarchy!", but it takes some serious aloofness not to see that male dominance in society trickles down to some very strange places indeed. As an example: that a man's employment status is the largest factor in his marital success.
      - klipt 10y ago
        I think plenty of people agree that Traditional Gender Roles cause problems for men and women who don't conform to them. But not everyone agrees that Traditional Genders Roles should be called "the patriarchy", because that has connotations that men (even the men being hurt by Traditional Gender Roles) are in control, which feels like blaming the victim.

LA_Banker 10y ago

>and the fact that a lot of men tie their identity to their employment so strongly. That's a really interesting point, especially in light of the study pointing out that it's moreso job status that's a risk factor than money problems. One would normally think the two would go hand-in-hand in terms of a divorce autopsy. But as you (and the study) point out, there's very much distinct.

Thedis 10y ago

I am making $340 to $350 per hour by online working on facebook. i was jobless a year ago , but now i am getting my own salary by doing this online job. This salary is enough for me to meet my expences. I am really thankful to God. If you want to make this salary like my , you can check my details.⤵ CLICK THIS LINKHERE HERE===>>>>>>> www.WageNeT9.ℂom

acangiano 10y ago

> a lot of men tie their identity to their employment so strongly I wonder if the other side of the coin isn't that wives tend to respect their husbands less when these earn less than they do. It could be because it violates a social norm caused by society's gender role expectations. Research found that even employed men who earn a bit less than their wives are affected by higher divorce rate. So we can cast these men as insecure and emasculated, or it could be a mix of both men and women's reaction to the situation, along with many other variables that you've hinted at.

anonbiocoward 10y ago
> it violates a social norm This story hit me pretty hard. While I was in medical school, my wife's family, especially her mother, routinely encouraged her to divorce me. We had two small kids, and I had gone on job interviews and seen the offers I was getting without a graduate degree, despite a BS in physics and 7 years of experience. It was obvious to everyone that medical school was the right course of action in the long term but it would be hard. I didn't realize it would get harder when her family started jumping on any opportunity to point out my "temporary financial embarrassment". On a day-to-day basis, she was working 40 hours a week and while med school was paid for, and I had a small stipend, her paycheck was better. And cognitively, she understood that. But her brothers and mother, and eventually her father told her to "get rid of him". We stuck it out. They wonder why we don't fly across country to visit them much...
- vonklaus 10y ago
  Interesting. Clearly there were hardships involved and getting an MD is a non-trivial financial and time commitment. However, at least in popular culture, an MD is a highly respected career path and often the joked about target for 'gold diggers'. Sure, it isn't marry a student, but it is a pretty well regarded track socially, financially and educationally.
- reitanqild 10y ago
  Impressed that you and your wife stuck together! Bet your kids will be too. My father used to quote someone that "the best a man can do for his kids are to love their mother." And: I feel sorry that this can actually happen to people.
  - zaroth 10y ago
    Thank you for that reply!
- twelve40 10y ago
  Wow, it must have been such a pain going through all that! Good job handling the pressure, hope it only gets better from then on.

thrway2670 10y ago

Having your wife discover she's a lesbian after 15 years is another way. Ask how I know. Never again.

DominikR 10y ago

> and the fact that a lot of men tie their identity to their employment so strongly At least this part is nothing new. Men have always (up until now and I'd argue that this is still true today) tied their identity, masculinity and even self-worth as a human being to their profession as society expected men contribute the necessary resources to their families in order to support wife & children. If a man couldn't provide the resources anymore he usually lost his value and function to his family and society.

DefaultUserHN 10y ago
Will your kids still love you even though you can't provide for them? Will they look down on you because they're starving and you are not competent enough to feed them? When they look around, they see other dads being able to feed their own kids, and they ask themselves, "Why is it that my dad can not feed them?" Will your kids look down on you because of this? Is the patriarchy forcing men to tie their identity to their ability to provide for their own kids? Or do men understands naturally that if they can't provide for their kids, then they must be pretty incompetent, and then they feels bad about it, naturally, because they love their kids. And then their kids look down on them, because "all the other dads can feed their children, when can't my dad feed me?"

MollyR 10y ago

I was wondering why men tie their identity to employment so much. Is it because society expects them to be providers, and ridicules men who don't ?

ethanbond 10y ago
I'd assume so. As much as HN likes to ridicule the notion of "the patriarchy," this is a component of it that's awfully harmful to men.
- karmajunkie 10y ago
  Yes absolutely. Sexism harms everyone.
- oldmanjay 10y ago
  There is a vast difference between ridiculing something and not accepting it on faith solely because very passionate people make assertions about it.
  - ethanbond 10y ago
    Sure, but that's my point. I think a lot of men on here have probably felt this effect. If it's not from "the patriarchy," or something similar by a different name, then what is it from? You don't have to think that, say, women's fashion changes faster than men's fashion because "the patriarchy!", but it takes some serious aloofness not to see that male dominance in society trickles down to some very strange places indeed. As an example: that a man's employment status is the largest factor in his marital success.
    - klipt 10y ago
      I think plenty of people agree that Traditional Gender Roles cause problems for men and women who don't conform to them. But not everyone agrees that Traditional Genders Roles should be called "the patriarchy", because that has connotations that men (even the men being hurt by Traditional Gender Roles) are in control, which feels like blaming the victim.