6 ms·

Poor journalism, yet again. Factor implies causal link. It's just a correlation in this case.

by skylan_q 10y ago

Retra 10y ago
You don't think there's any causal link?
- seizethecheese 10y ago
  There may be, but it also may be that there is a third factor which makes the husband more likely to be unemployed and also a less valuable mate.
  - hueving 10y ago
    Yeah, if the husband is emotionally unstable that could lead to both things.
  - greenyoda 10y ago
    In fact, I can think of several factors like that: alcoholism, drug addiction, anger management issues, clinical depression, chronic diseases, etc.
    - lmmlzxx 10y ago
      And potentially that men (and women) may react a certain way to unemployment that makes them difficult to be with.
  - Retra 10y ago
    If there is a third factor, that doesn't stop anything else from being a factor.
  - vacri 10y ago
    The very word 'factor' requires there to be more than one. A single thing can't be the factor.
mjevans 10y ago
I view it as the study went looking for X, and to it's surprise didn't see X, but happened to see statistical significance in Y. However the study did not have the scope to determine why Y occurred. I think the most likely thing that changed over time is Z: the first wave(s) of feminism began to liberate females from the traditional limitations of roles in society. However the true from of feminism is a recognition and reconstruction based around /all/ gender roles being bad for mental health, emotional health, and positive relations among individuals. Men haven't had that liberation; a large part of society still believes in specific roles and responsibilities for men that coupled females are (at their option) exempted from. This probably leads to increased stress to both individuals and also an increased risk of negative feedback loops for the situation and everyone involved. The inherent bias in society is even reflected in the premise of the study. It's tracking a specific type of male/female relationship and a specific correlation of role towards problems. Instead a more balanced study would look at the starting condition, determine what percentage of the population (restricting to males and females alone is OK, but including all sets of couples is better) fits different configurations, and tracking for outcomes as well as associated economic, emotional, mental, and physical health in the related intervals would be a better study design. The study might also have a follow-up for 'marriage failure' cases where isolation of the root causes is performed.
- exstudent2 10y ago
  > Men haven't had that liberation; a large part of society still believes in specific roles and responsibilities for men that coupled females are (at their option) exempted from. This probably leads to increased stress to both individuals and also an increased risk of negative feedback loops for the situation and everyone involved. Sadly that role restructuring, when driven by men, is still almost universally derided. Look at the men's rights movement or mgtow. The trope of the basement dwelling virgin is immidately deployed to minimize their concerns. Feminism isn't the tool needed. Men need to drive their role in society. Society just isn't ready for it. EDIT: heavily down voted, almost makes my point for me.
  - bruceb 10y ago
    I would say you are getting down voted because the MRM seems to be not limited to trying to make things better for men but also endless attacking women and creating stawman(woman) feminism. Men do face many challenges. Some men have dangerous jobs which they die providing for society (fishing, war, etc). This doesn't get enough acknowledgement. But one doesn't have to be a total jerk to make this point and tear others down.

Poor journalism, yet again. Factor implies causal link. It's just a correlation in this case.

Retra 10y ago

You don't think there's any causal link?

seizethecheese 10y ago
There may be, but it also may be that there is a third factor which makes the husband more likely to be unemployed and also a less valuable mate.
- hueving 10y ago
  Yeah, if the husband is emotionally unstable that could lead to both things.
- greenyoda 10y ago
  In fact, I can think of several factors like that: alcoholism, drug addiction, anger management issues, clinical depression, chronic diseases, etc.
  - lmmlzxx 10y ago
    And potentially that men (and women) may react a certain way to unemployment that makes them difficult to be with.
- Retra 10y ago
  If there is a third factor, that doesn't stop anything else from being a factor.
- vacri 10y ago
  The very word 'factor' requires there to be more than one. A single thing can't be the factor.

mjevans 10y ago

I view it as the study went looking for X, and to it's surprise didn't see X, but happened to see statistical significance in Y. However the study did not have the scope to determine why Y occurred. I think the most likely thing that changed over time is Z: the first wave(s) of feminism began to liberate females from the traditional limitations of roles in society. However the true from of feminism is a recognition and reconstruction based around /all/ gender roles being bad for mental health, emotional health, and positive relations among individuals. Men haven't had that liberation; a large part of society still believes in specific roles and responsibilities for men that coupled females are (at their option) exempted from. This probably leads to increased stress to both individuals and also an increased risk of negative feedback loops for the situation and everyone involved. The inherent bias in society is even reflected in the premise of the study. It's tracking a specific type of male/female relationship and a specific correlation of role towards problems. Instead a more balanced study would look at the starting condition, determine what percentage of the population (restricting to males and females alone is OK, but including all sets of couples is better) fits different configurations, and tracking for outcomes as well as associated economic, emotional, mental, and physical health in the related intervals would be a better study design. The study might also have a follow-up for 'marriage failure' cases where isolation of the root causes is performed.

exstudent2 10y ago
> Men haven't had that liberation; a large part of society still believes in specific roles and responsibilities for men that coupled females are (at their option) exempted from. This probably leads to increased stress to both individuals and also an increased risk of negative feedback loops for the situation and everyone involved. Sadly that role restructuring, when driven by men, is still almost universally derided. Look at the men's rights movement or mgtow. The trope of the basement dwelling virgin is immidately deployed to minimize their concerns. Feminism isn't the tool needed. Men need to drive their role in society. Society just isn't ready for it. EDIT: heavily down voted, almost makes my point for me.
- bruceb 10y ago
  I would say you are getting down voted because the MRM seems to be not limited to trying to make things better for men but also endless attacking women and creating stawman(woman) feminism. Men do face many challenges. Some men have dangerous jobs which they die providing for society (fishing, war, etc). This doesn't get enough acknowledgement. But one doesn't have to be a total jerk to make this point and tear others down.