4 ms·

Why should we fight that? That's no different from taxi companies fighting Uber, or how Intuit lobbies congress to avoid automatic filing of taxes. Hampering pr

by city41 10y ago

Why should we fight that? That's no different from taxi companies fighting Uber, or how Intuit lobbies congress to avoid automatic filing of taxes. Hampering progress for the greater good just because it harms you in the short term is never a good idea.

superswordfish 10y ago
This wouldn't harm me in the short term alone, it would be a lost career and a life catastrophe. A taxi driver can work as an Uber driver. I cannot become an automated programmer. So I don't give a damn about the "greater good" in this context, and question that premise also: Sibling mentions getting used to everybody being retirees, but what I see is collective poverty with token conveniences. Time will tell, etc.
- riboflava 10y ago
  Retirees aren't the richest bunch, true. Collective poverty isn't an unlikely outcome for the vast majority of humans. Still, "poverty" need not be uncomfortable when "token conveniences" like a private home, food, entertainment, and opportunities for (even if economically useless) creativity and learning are in abundance. An interesting analysis on a world with increased automation via emulated brains of the best of humanity: http://ageofem.com/ http://ageofem.com/
  - deleted 10y ago
    [deleted]
- jtms 10y ago
  If I had an AI that could write code better than I it would be AMAZING. As a solo game dev I could be 1000000 times more productive and spend all of my time designing and balancing the game with the help of the greatest dev of all time!
  - GFK_of_xmaspast 10y ago
    Yeah but: how are you going to turn your labor into "food" and "shelter".
    - cercatrova 10y ago
      If he's a game dev, he could sell his game?
    - deleted 10y ago
      [deleted]
- city41 10y ago
  A Taxi driver can't become an Uber driver when all Uber cars are self driving, which will happen and likely happen far sooner than programming gets automated away. HN doesn't bat an eye at Uber, AirBnB, Netflix, Amazon disrupting and taking away jobs. But it's interesting once programming jobs are threatened, some become defensive.
  - superswordfish 10y ago
    In any case, HN is not one person, and you will not find me defending those businesses.
    - city41 10y ago
      Are you saying you don't think Uber, Amazon, etc should exist? Why? Because they are disruptive and potentially taking away jobs?
      - npizzolato 10y ago
        That's not what you said. You said no one on HN doesn't bat an eye at Uber, AirBnB, etc. I personally think the way those two companies in particular flaunt laws is unethical, and I think they should be punished until they start following them. That's not the same as thinking they shouldn't exist.
        hueving 10y ago
        How does Amazon flaunt the law?
        npizzolato 10y ago
        "Those two companies in particular" were Uber and AirBnB, the only two companies I named in my comment. I never said Amazon flaunted the law.
        city41 10y ago
1_2__3 10y ago
> Hampering progress for the greater good just because it harms you in the short term is never a good idea. I'd love to hear your thesis for this, in a way that doesn't whitewash away the negative effects on the individual. If you're going to claim we should all be throwing ourselves on the burning pyre of progress no matter what I'd love to hear more of a compelling argument than "never a good iea".
- nostrademons 10y ago
  Not OP, but I'd like to offer up a reframing. Progress gives us the opportunity to grow, to adapt, and to learn new things. Do you want to be the person who is stuck as the person they were when they first entered the workforce? Wouldn't you rather be someone who remains present in whatever moment in history it is now, and constantly redefines themselves according to the environment they are. There's no reason why you have to think "I'm a software engineer, therefore any attack on software engineers is an attack on me." You could, just as easily, define yourself by "I'm a person. I do software engineering because the money is good right now and that is what the economy happens to need right now, but if in the future society ceases to need software engineers, I'll retrain with whatever skill is highly valued then." I remember coming out of college, happy to learn about the world, and thinking how sad it was that people's identities were so wrapped up with their jobs that they were broken when their jobs were eliminated. I felt that shift happening soon after I turned 30, where I started to get just a little bit too comfortable and too proud of what I was rather than what I did, and then quit so that I'd have that opportunity to grow again.
  - prodigal_erik 10y ago
    >I'll retrain with whatever skill is highly valued then. Software development has been invaded by mouth-breathers who don't give a shit about what they're doing, and I don't see a way to switch careers as an adult chasing money without becoming one of those.
    - lgas 10y ago
      One way to do that would be to give a shit about what you're doing even after you switch careers.

by city41 10y ago

superswordfish 10y ago

This wouldn't harm me in the short term alone, it would be a lost career and a life catastrophe. A taxi driver can work as an Uber driver. I cannot become an automated programmer. So I don't give a damn about the "greater good" in this context, and question that premise also: Sibling mentions getting used to everybody being retirees, but what I see is collective poverty with token conveniences. Time will tell, etc.

riboflava 10y ago
Retirees aren't the richest bunch, true. Collective poverty isn't an unlikely outcome for the vast majority of humans. Still, "poverty" need not be uncomfortable when "token conveniences" like a private home, food, entertainment, and opportunities for (even if economically useless) creativity and learning are in abundance. An interesting analysis on a world with increased automation via emulated brains of the best of humanity: http://ageofem.com/ http://ageofem.com/
- deleted 10y ago
  [deleted]
jtms 10y ago
If I had an AI that could write code better than I it would be AMAZING. As a solo game dev I could be 1000000 times more productive and spend all of my time designing and balancing the game with the help of the greatest dev of all time!
- GFK_of_xmaspast 10y ago
  Yeah but: how are you going to turn your labor into "food" and "shelter".
  - cercatrova 10y ago
    If he's a game dev, he could sell his game?
  - deleted 10y ago
    [deleted]
city41 10y ago
A Taxi driver can't become an Uber driver when all Uber cars are self driving, which will happen and likely happen far sooner than programming gets automated away. HN doesn't bat an eye at Uber, AirBnB, Netflix, Amazon disrupting and taking away jobs. But it's interesting once programming jobs are threatened, some become defensive.
- superswordfish 10y ago
  In any case, HN is not one person, and you will not find me defending those businesses.
  - city41 10y ago
    Are you saying you don't think Uber, Amazon, etc should exist? Why? Because they are disruptive and potentially taking away jobs?
    - npizzolato 10y ago
      That's not what you said. You said no one on HN doesn't bat an eye at Uber, AirBnB, etc. I personally think the way those two companies in particular flaunt laws is unethical, and I think they should be punished until they start following them. That's not the same as thinking they shouldn't exist.
      - hueving 10y ago
        How does Amazon flaunt the law?
        npizzolato 10y ago
        "Those two companies in particular" were Uber and AirBnB, the only two companies I named in my comment. I never said Amazon flaunted the law.
      - city41 10y ago

1_2__3 10y ago

> Hampering progress for the greater good just because it harms you in the short term is never a good idea. I'd love to hear your thesis for this, in a way that doesn't whitewash away the negative effects on the individual. If you're going to claim we should all be throwing ourselves on the burning pyre of progress no matter what I'd love to hear more of a compelling argument than "never a good iea".

nostrademons 10y ago
Not OP, but I'd like to offer up a reframing. Progress gives us the opportunity to grow, to adapt, and to learn new things. Do you want to be the person who is stuck as the person they were when they first entered the workforce? Wouldn't you rather be someone who remains present in whatever moment in history it is now, and constantly redefines themselves according to the environment they are. There's no reason why you have to think "I'm a software engineer, therefore any attack on software engineers is an attack on me." You could, just as easily, define yourself by "I'm a person. I do software engineering because the money is good right now and that is what the economy happens to need right now, but if in the future society ceases to need software engineers, I'll retrain with whatever skill is highly valued then." I remember coming out of college, happy to learn about the world, and thinking how sad it was that people's identities were so wrapped up with their jobs that they were broken when their jobs were eliminated. I felt that shift happening soon after I turned 30, where I started to get just a little bit too comfortable and too proud of what I was rather than what I did, and then quit so that I'd have that opportunity to grow again.
- prodigal_erik 10y ago
  >I'll retrain with whatever skill is highly valued then. Software development has been invaded by mouth-breathers who don't give a shit about what they're doing, and I don't see a way to switch careers as an adult chasing money without becoming one of those.
  - lgas 10y ago
    One way to do that would be to give a shit about what you're doing even after you switch careers.