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Yes? That is the entire point of this discussion. That just strikes me as a sign-up for more info. Granted I haven't signed up there so who knows if there are n

Yes? That is the entire point of this discussion. That just strikes me as a sign-up for more info. Granted I haven't signed up there so who knows if there are nefarious pre-checked boxes and massive ToS agreements, but signup for access to the site doesn't seem malicious.

kordless 10y ago
I really shouldn't ask leading questions, because they are technically equivalent to blaming statements. What I meant was that "it does NOT matter" whether it's a UX bug or an intentional pattern. The effects can be the same. If a company doesn't have a lot of money to produce a good UX because they spent it all on trips up to Tahoe for a "workcation", and people rely on that software, it's the same damn thing no matter how you look at it. i.e. a lack of intent is just as bad as ill intent, in some cases.
- stanmancan 10y ago
  Requiring someone to log in to use your site or service is not a dark pattern though. There's nothing nefarious going on there. As another poster said somewhere in this chain, if upon signing up you have to give your life away via the TOS, or there's pre-checked boxes signing you up for mailing lists, those are dark patterns. Simply requiring a user sign up is not.
  - EdHominem 10y ago
    That's not what the users say. Sure, it could be darker. But when you see a bit of a crummy pattern you usually walk away instead of checking out just how bad it could get.
    - stanmancan 10y ago
      Then the 'users' are incorrectly using the term dark pattern; most likely because they don't really know what one is. "A Dark Pattern is a user interface that has been carefully crafted to trick users into doing things." Simply making a user sign up to use your service is hardly a 'carefully crafted trick'.
  - deleted 10y ago
    [deleted]
- chrismcb 10y ago
  Yes it does matter. A bug or poor design can be fixed, while a dark pattern is intentional. Yes, the end result to the user is the same, but long term the it's a difference.

kordless 10y ago

I really shouldn't ask leading questions, because they are technically equivalent to blaming statements. What I meant was that "it does NOT matter" whether it's a UX bug or an intentional pattern. The effects can be the same. If a company doesn't have a lot of money to produce a good UX because they spent it all on trips up to Tahoe for a "workcation", and people rely on that software, it's the same damn thing no matter how you look at it. i.e. a lack of intent is just as bad as ill intent, in some cases.

stanmancan 10y ago
Requiring someone to log in to use your site or service is not a dark pattern though. There's nothing nefarious going on there. As another poster said somewhere in this chain, if upon signing up you have to give your life away via the TOS, or there's pre-checked boxes signing you up for mailing lists, those are dark patterns. Simply requiring a user sign up is not.
- EdHominem 10y ago
  That's not what the users say. Sure, it could be darker. But when you see a bit of a crummy pattern you usually walk away instead of checking out just how bad it could get.
  - stanmancan 10y ago
    Then the 'users' are incorrectly using the term dark pattern; most likely because they don't really know what one is. "A Dark Pattern is a user interface that has been carefully crafted to trick users into doing things." Simply making a user sign up to use your service is hardly a 'carefully crafted trick'.
- deleted 10y ago
  [deleted]
chrismcb 10y ago
Yes it does matter. A bug or poor design can be fixed, while a dark pattern is intentional. Yes, the end result to the user is the same, but long term the it's a difference.