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There's no letter-to-sound correspondence in English. English probably - at least compared with other European language - is one of the most irregular languages

There's no letter-to-sound correspondence in English. English probably - at least compared with other European language - is one of the most irregular languages in terms of pronunciation: http://www.wordsmith.org/awad/english1.html http://www.wordsmith.org/awad/english1.html This is simply due to the language having been heavily influenced by a host of other - quite different - languages over the centuries, Old Norse and French in particular. There's also the interesting fact that as the first human language in history English is spoken by more non-native speakers than native speakers. Some linguists say we might very well see some sort of International English that's highly influenced by foreign accents. In fact there already is such a variety although it's only used by a rather small group of people: The kind of English used by the European Union, its officials and bureaucrats. EU English is littered with bureaucratic expressions, loan words and false friends (particularly from French).

mattmanser 10y ago
There's pidgin English in Nigeria. When you first hear it you think it's a different language.
- icebraining 10y ago
  Which kind talk be dat? Na craze talk be dat
- cafard 10y ago
  The pidgin ("business") English that has official status in New Guinea is a different language, recognizably derived from English but different.
- taco_emoji 10y ago
  There's all kinds of pidgin Englishes (and Frenches and cetera...) In fact, it's almost impossible NOT to spontaneously invent a pidgin when there's a language barrier between two people or peoples. When I was in Vietnam, my friends and I adapted our English ad-hoc depending on who we were speaking to. With merchants with very little English, we'd speak only in numbers and yes/no, and maybe say please/thanks in each others' languages. With our tour guides who were much more fluent, we could speak in complete sentences, but still tried to keep things in present tense, and tended to ask questions by using a declarative word order with a rising tone ("we go to the hotel now?"). And we did this all instinctively--it's easy to see how well-defined pidgin languages can arise from this sort of linguistic adaptation between two or more populations.
raverbashing 10y ago
English was not "influenced" by Old Norse, rather, they are siblings
- BjoernKW 10y ago
  Actually, its both. Old English is related to Old Norse as modern German is to modern Swedish: They're similar but not as close as German and Dutch or English and Frisian, for instance. However, in the Early Middle Ages English was also heavily and directly influenced by Old Norse because Vikings at that time not only more or less continually invaded the English east coast but also settled and established their own jurisdiction (The Danelaw) there.
  - abritinthebay 10y ago
    Also practically the same alphabet (Futhorc rather than Futhark)
  - jhbadger 10y ago
    And it gets another dose after 1066 because the Normans were really former Vikings who adopted a Romance language and the Norman language contains a lot of Norse words in addition to Latinate ones.
lorenzhs 10y ago
See also https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Vowel_Shift https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Vowel_Shift
nl 10y ago
This is simply due to the language having been heavily influenced by a host of other - quite different - languages over the centuries, Old Norse and French in particular. It's actually worse than that. I see that the Great Vowel Shift[1] has been linked to, but it's probably not immediately clear why that was significant. What happened was that "between 1350 and 1600.... all Middle English long vowels changed their pronunciation". Unfortunately this occurred just as spelling was being standardised, so some spelling was standardised using the old pronunciation (which then shifted) and some with the new. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Vowel_Shift https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Vowel_Shift
celticninja 10y ago
When ever the English language and its appropriation of other words come up I cannot help but think of this quote from James Nicoll: "The problem with defending the purity of the English language is that English is about as pure as a cribhouse whore. We don't just borrow words; on occasion, English has pursued other languages down alleyways to beat them unconscious and rifle their pockets for new vocabulary."
robjan 10y ago
International English does exist. It's basically American English. Every international school around the world and English Cram school is Asia uses it.
DonaldFisk 10y ago
> There's no letter-to-sound correspondence in English. There is, it's just very complicated (hundreds of rules), as well as accent-dependent, and there are lots of exceptions.
- tacon 10y ago
  Remember phonics for kids learning to read? And "just sound it out"? I try that from time to time on ESL friends, and the looks I get... I think that is the difference between years of passive intelligible input vs. starting from scratch.
- pessimizer 10y ago
  With only 56 somewhat complex rules, you can pronounce things correctly 85% of the time! http://zompist.com/spell.html http://zompist.com/spell.html
umanwizard 10y ago
It's backwards to say the pronunciation is irregular. Spoken language is more fundamental than written language. The pronunciation is fine; it's completely arbitrary, like that of any language, and no way is inherently better than any other. It's the spelling that is irregular.

mattmanser 10y ago

There's pidgin English in Nigeria. When you first hear it you think it's a different language.

icebraining 10y ago
Which kind talk be dat? Na craze talk be dat
cafard 10y ago
The pidgin ("business") English that has official status in New Guinea is a different language, recognizably derived from English but different.
taco_emoji 10y ago
There's all kinds of pidgin Englishes (and Frenches and cetera...) In fact, it's almost impossible NOT to spontaneously invent a pidgin when there's a language barrier between two people or peoples. When I was in Vietnam, my friends and I adapted our English ad-hoc depending on who we were speaking to. With merchants with very little English, we'd speak only in numbers and yes/no, and maybe say please/thanks in each others' languages. With our tour guides who were much more fluent, we could speak in complete sentences, but still tried to keep things in present tense, and tended to ask questions by using a declarative word order with a rising tone ("we go to the hotel now?"). And we did this all instinctively--it's easy to see how well-defined pidgin languages can arise from this sort of linguistic adaptation between two or more populations.

raverbashing 10y ago

English was not "influenced" by Old Norse, rather, they are siblings

BjoernKW 10y ago
Actually, its both. Old English is related to Old Norse as modern German is to modern Swedish: They're similar but not as close as German and Dutch or English and Frisian, for instance. However, in the Early Middle Ages English was also heavily and directly influenced by Old Norse because Vikings at that time not only more or less continually invaded the English east coast but also settled and established their own jurisdiction (The Danelaw) there.
- abritinthebay 10y ago
  Also practically the same alphabet (Futhorc rather than Futhark)
- jhbadger 10y ago
  And it gets another dose after 1066 because the Normans were really former Vikings who adopted a Romance language and the Norman language contains a lot of Norse words in addition to Latinate ones.

lorenzhs 10y ago

See also https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Vowel_Shift https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Vowel_Shift

nl 10y ago

This is simply due to the language having been heavily influenced by a host of other - quite different - languages over the centuries, Old Norse and French in particular. It's actually worse than that. I see that the Great Vowel Shift[1] has been linked to, but it's probably not immediately clear why that was significant. What happened was that "between 1350 and 1600.... all Middle English long vowels changed their pronunciation". Unfortunately this occurred just as spelling was being standardised, so some spelling was standardised using the old pronunciation (which then shifted) and some with the new. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Vowel_Shift https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Vowel_Shift

celticninja 10y ago

When ever the English language and its appropriation of other words come up I cannot help but think of this quote from James Nicoll: "The problem with defending the purity of the English language is that English is about as pure as a cribhouse whore. We don't just borrow words; on occasion, English has pursued other languages down alleyways to beat them unconscious and rifle their pockets for new vocabulary."

robjan 10y ago

International English does exist. It's basically American English. Every international school around the world and English Cram school is Asia uses it.

DonaldFisk 10y ago

> There's no letter-to-sound correspondence in English. There is, it's just very complicated (hundreds of rules), as well as accent-dependent, and there are lots of exceptions.

tacon 10y ago
Remember phonics for kids learning to read? And "just sound it out"? I try that from time to time on ESL friends, and the looks I get... I think that is the difference between years of passive intelligible input vs. starting from scratch.
pessimizer 10y ago
With only 56 somewhat complex rules, you can pronounce things correctly 85% of the time! http://zompist.com/spell.html http://zompist.com/spell.html

umanwizard 10y ago

It's backwards to say the pronunciation is irregular. Spoken language is more fundamental than written language. The pronunciation is fine; it's completely arbitrary, like that of any language, and no way is inherently better than any other. It's the spelling that is irregular.