5 ms·

I've read this years before, but reading it now I can't help to feel it very relevant to current state of Polish (and probably not only Polish) democracy. Ther

by ajuc 10y ago

I've read this years before, but reading it now I can't help to feel it very relevant to current state of Polish (and probably not only Polish) democracy. There is minority, but growing "cultural Catholics" that don't particulary care about the dekalog, anticonception and all that, but will leash on you for "LGBT propaganda", demand that Catholic symbols are prominent everywhere, and Islam/whatever other symbols are removed. They consider the current pope "too leftist" because he quotes Jesus on refuges. They "are not antisemitist, but these damn Jews control Poland". It's connected with Polish nationalism, EU-scepticism, and outright racism sometimes, and for a few years already it's "cool" to be a nationalist in 15-25 age group. They are also persuaded nationalism is the default state, in each country, and it's only the leftist media conspiracy that covers that up. And these people are actively encouraged by current conservative government (probably with their noses held, but what that changes?) because they are the obvious demographics that can help them against the main centro-liberal opposition parties. Their propaganda is anti-intellectual, refers to "common sense" against scientific theories, ignores all subtle distinctions and paints very "we vs them" world, calls everybody disagreeing with them "traitors", and sees a conspiracy of Soros and leftist behind everything. It's very sad to see how bad political luck and cynism can undo so much progress in so short time.

guard-of-terra 10y ago
> Their propaganda is anti-intellectual, refers to "common sense" against scientific theories I can see you're disgusted by this. I can relate to you. On other hand, I'm disgusted when people get to ignore observations and facts because they don't fit their dominant ideology. For example, there's this current ideology that "terrorism doesn't have a religion" and no amounts of facts are allowed to counter it.
- ajuc 10y ago
  Well, in my country there were 2 terrorist acts since 50s, both by young political extremists. One by right-wing Catholic (well, I'm not sure he's Catholic, but I'm sure he's not Muslim), and the other by 2 most probably atheistic left-wing extremists. And Poles had a lot experience with political terrorism when we were under occupation. Even our 1920s-30s leader Piłsudski was a terrorist once. So yes, terrorism isn't about religion, it's just correlated with one (and not even that strongly, usually - the current wave of terrorism doesn't even have the highest victim count in the last 50 years in Europe).
  - guard-of-terra 10y ago
    Yeah, Poles got free pass in the world of globalization - most of the upsides without much downsides. Not even sure what's left for nationalists to rant about.
    - ajuc 10y ago
      > Not even sure what's left for nationalists to rant about. "We're poor compared to Germans therefore betrayal". They're 20 sth, so they don't remember what real poor looks like.
      - guard-of-terra 10y ago
        But they have virtually no muslim migrants, no legalized prostitution, etc, etc... Are they nationalists or hedonists after all?
        ajuc 10y ago
        > no legalized prostitution Actually it's legal if you do it by yourself. And it's even untaxed. I don't understand why :) It's only illegal if someone gets a cut. And anyway I don't think Polish nationalists are against prostitution in general. From what I understand they gather support basing on "Polish industry was sold, we were betrayed to EU, banks and foreign corporations buy out everything, leftists and gays want to destroy our culture, and flood us with Muslims".
        guard-of-terra 10y ago
        > leftists and gays want to destroy our culture, and flood us with Muslims Isn't this concern valid? They definitely do.
        ajuc 10y ago
        How?
- pjc50 10y ago
  > terrorism doesn't have a religion Given the facts of the numbers of people killed in the UK since the end of WW2 by terrorism, what would you say the religion of terrorism was? (yes of course this is a trick question)
  - guard-of-terra 10y ago
    It had a nationality, did not it?
    - pjc50 10y ago
      Much of the IRA were British nationals, or dual British-Irish.

by ajuc 10y ago

guard-of-terra 10y ago

> Their propaganda is anti-intellectual, refers to "common sense" against scientific theories I can see you're disgusted by this. I can relate to you. On other hand, I'm disgusted when people get to ignore observations and facts because they don't fit their dominant ideology. For example, there's this current ideology that "terrorism doesn't have a religion" and no amounts of facts are allowed to counter it.

ajuc 10y ago
Well, in my country there were 2 terrorist acts since 50s, both by young political extremists. One by right-wing Catholic (well, I'm not sure he's Catholic, but I'm sure he's not Muslim), and the other by 2 most probably atheistic left-wing extremists. And Poles had a lot experience with political terrorism when we were under occupation. Even our 1920s-30s leader Piłsudski was a terrorist once. So yes, terrorism isn't about religion, it's just correlated with one (and not even that strongly, usually - the current wave of terrorism doesn't even have the highest victim count in the last 50 years in Europe).
- guard-of-terra 10y ago
  Yeah, Poles got free pass in the world of globalization - most of the upsides without much downsides. Not even sure what's left for nationalists to rant about.
  - ajuc 10y ago
    > Not even sure what's left for nationalists to rant about. "We're poor compared to Germans therefore betrayal". They're 20 sth, so they don't remember what real poor looks like.
    - guard-of-terra 10y ago
      But they have virtually no muslim migrants, no legalized prostitution, etc, etc... Are they nationalists or hedonists after all?
      - ajuc 10y ago
        > no legalized prostitution Actually it's legal if you do it by yourself. And it's even untaxed. I don't understand why :) It's only illegal if someone gets a cut. And anyway I don't think Polish nationalists are against prostitution in general. From what I understand they gather support basing on "Polish industry was sold, we were betrayed to EU, banks and foreign corporations buy out everything, leftists and gays want to destroy our culture, and flood us with Muslims".
        guard-of-terra 10y ago
        > leftists and gays want to destroy our culture, and flood us with Muslims Isn't this concern valid? They definitely do.
        ajuc 10y ago
        How?
pjc50 10y ago
> terrorism doesn't have a religion Given the facts of the numbers of people killed in the UK since the end of WW2 by terrorism, what would you say the religion of terrorism was? (yes of course this is a trick question)
- guard-of-terra 10y ago
  It had a nationality, did not it?
  - pjc50 10y ago
    Much of the IRA were British nationals, or dual British-Irish.