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I didn't know that! ... anyway, yes I'm afraid, I just did what I felt to be my "duty" and hope for the best :)

by evilsocket 10y ago

erlehmann_ 10y ago
Just never – ever – visit UAE again.
- evilsocket 10y ago
  ahaha of course not! :D
  - angry_octet 10y ago
    Or any of the GCC states. https://www.hrw.org/news/2014/04/26/gcc-joint-security-agreement-imperils-rights https://www.hrw.org/news/2014/04/26/gcc-joint-security-agree...
- cup 10y ago
  I like the UAE. As long as you don't break their laws the experience is fine. To be honest, I'm more frightened of going to America as a non-white person where even obeying the laws can result in death. Edit: If you disagree with my post please add to the conversation rather than just down-voting.
  - ethanbond 10y ago
    There's not even a way to frame a disagreement. Your statement is just intellectually dishonest. You can die obeying the laws anywhere as a person of any race. America has problems with racial violence, but your comment indicates a total disconnect from reality in pretty much every way.
  - nfd 10y ago
    I'd still stay away if I were evilsocket.
  - erlehmann_ 10y ago
    Referring to racial discrimination in the west as reaction to allegations of human rights abuse is a quite old technique: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/And_you_are_lynching_Negroes https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/And_you_are_lynching_Negroes Edit: The rhetorical device is called a “whataboutism”. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whataboutism https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whataboutism. The fallacy involved is called “to quoque” – a special case of an “ad hominem” argument, i.e. attacking the speaker and not the content. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tu_quoque https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tu_quoque
    - upofadown 10y ago
      There was no attempt to excuse human rights abuses in the post you are responding to. Only a comment about visiting such places vs the US while brown. In general despotic regimes love visitors who are willing to keep their opinions about the local political situation to themselves no matter what sort of person they are. Places like the US tend to be indifferent to the political beliefs of visitors and as a result any local racial biases will be applied fairly to those visiting.
  - tome 10y ago
    Better not get raped: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-23381448 http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-23381448
  - hueving 10y ago
    The chances of you dieing from law enforcement acting in a racist manner are vanishingly small and it is still illegal. The uae condones killing people for being gay as a matter of policy. Don't expect much more than downvotes when you attempt to portray as the US being worse in that comparison.
    - enraged_camel 10y ago
      The difference of course is that one can hide the fact that one is gay. It's not so easy to hide that one is black.
      - erlehmann_ 10y ago
        Which might be one reason why they need surveillance. For many people, even a simple web search might turn up stuff that could get them arrested. For this reason, I have decided not to visit countries where some of the content on web sites I am responsible for is illegal.
      - hueving 10y ago
        The difference of course is that one is discrimination based on law, while the other is a minority of bad actors acting illegally. >It's not so easy to hide that one is black. Sure it is. Wear a burka every time you are in public. This suggestion is also as ridiculous as suggesting that people hide the fact that they are gay.
        brokenmachine 10y ago
        > Wear a burka every time you are in public. This suggestion is also as ridiculous as suggesting that people hide the fact that they are gay. So let me get this right: You are comparing the ridiculousness of a black person having to wear a burka in the US to avoid being shot, versus the ridiculousness of a gay person having to hide the fact that they are gay while in the UAE? I'm sorry, it just doesn't sound as ridiculous to me to expect someone to take care not to utter the words, "I am gay" while in a country where being gay can get you legally killed, as opposed to the ridiculousness of a black person having to wear a burka in the US to avoid being shot illegally. Being black in the US is legal, and being shot for being a black person in the US is uncommon. The burden of having to wear a burka all the time lest your blackness be discovered is large. Being gay in the UAE is illegal and punishable by death. The burden of not saying certain particular words to expose your gayness is small. Ergo, the black guy having to wear a burka option is clearly more ridiculous.
  - benologist 10y ago
    Indonesia banned their women from working in the UAE and 20 of their neighbors because of the abuse, maiming and killing by their employers and judicial systems. http://edition.cnn.com/2015/05/06/asia/indonesia-migrant-worker-ban/ http://edition.cnn.com/2015/05/06/asia/indonesia-migrant-wor...
  - JabavuAdams 10y ago
    I am disgusted by the race and policing problems in the US, but you have to have some perspective. I've never had a problem as a half-black Canadian business traveler. That doesn't mean I'm not anxious. All though the US may legitimately seem callous and murderous to those on the sharp end of its foreign policy, there are a whole lot of Americans who take this freedom thing seriously. More important, there is a culture of free speech and of challenging government.
    - erlehmann_ 10y ago
      I think an important difference is that the victims of most US actions like abduction, imprisonment without trial, torture or assassinations are not US citizens – and it is often done in a foreign country. Because of that, it does not stifle political debate. Example: The current US administration apparently has a “kill list” for enemies of the US government that they plan to assassinate. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Disposition_Matrix https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Disposition_Matrix I find such a thing scary and unethical. Yet, as I understand it, domestic political opponents of US politicians do not have to fear torture, disappearance, or imprisonment without trial – it is even possible to openly criticize the people who command such assassinations without being in danger of being executed by the government.
  - moptar 10y ago
    The UAE really does have a low crime rate. The people being disappeared, flogged, etc are typically breaking the law. We in the west might not agree with those laws, but they're still written laws that you can simply avoid breaking to keep yourself safe. The same goes in any country. They all have different laws. You can be convicted for buying counterfeit clothes in Italy, Having sex with a 17 year old in the US (despite it being legal in the UK), Possessing certain types of hand-drawn pornography in Australia (despite it being legal in the US), Posting threatening messages on Facebook in the US, downloading music from the internet in the US.
  - __jal 10y ago
    Personally, I'm more interested in the perception than in the sorts of defensiveness that I'm seeing in response. Sure, statistically, most visitors aren't going to have any problem with our screwed up police. But remember that, statistically, your average voter is more likely to drown in a bucket[1] than be a victim of terrorism, and look at what has been done since 2001 "to keep us safe". Fear is not rational, and "you're wrong" or "I have this issue with your rhetorical technique" is not going to change any minds. [1] Picked statistically unlikely event at random; did not look up actual statistics. You get the point and I'm not going to respond to pedantry.
  - Olscore 10y ago
    Your comment shows the level of misinformation and reputation damage done by media and various social movements. America is safe for all law-abiding persons. Not only do I disagree with your comment, but I find it offensive that you would propagate the myth. It's damaging and unsubstantiated.
    - throwaway-hn123 10y ago
      > America is safe for all law-abiding persons. This is patently not true. You can blame social media, or SJW's or whatever, but it is not true, except in the minds of the alt-right.
      - Olscore 10y ago
        Says the person using a throwaway account. So brave. May as well consider you an alt-coward, since you'll insinuate connection with the alt-right. Tit for tat, buddy.
        throwaway-hn123 10y ago
        Yes, the person using a throwaway account says that your statement is patently false. And as you attacked the only thing you could attack, I assume you know that as well, "buddy"!
        Olscore 10y ago
        Nice astro-turfing in your comment history. Remember my name buddy, I won't remember yours.
        throwaway-hn123 10y ago
        > Remember my name buddy, I won't remember yours. Sure, I will remember your name, Olsco. My name isn't hard to remember - it's Away; Throw Away. > Nice astro-turfing in your comment history Do you not even know what astroturfing is? Keep attacking my HN handle - just shows that you know your statement was patently, absurdly and almost hilariously false.
  - qwertyuiop924 10y ago
    I don't just disagree with your post: in light of what evilsocket just stated, your claims are downright ludocrious.
  - johnnyhillbilly 10y ago
    Even though I also try to stay away from the US, attitudes like these are in a different league: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=bV710c1dgpU https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=bV710c1dgpU
  - euske 10y ago
    What you probably don't know is that America is a very big and complex country. It's so big that you can love one part and hate the other part at the same time. It's so complex that even its government is not entirely a single rock. There are avid defenders of human rights as well as evil masters in its government. Somehow they are both coexisting. That's how big America is. I'm non-white and non-American and I certainly hate some ugly parts of it. But I have mixed feeling to America. I guess it's a kind of feeling that many people have towards the country.
    - imbeau 10y ago
      One of the more accurate descriptions of America that I've seen. It's truly a country of contradictions.
    - flukus 10y ago
      What you probably don't know is that this describes just about every country, even some of the tiny pacific island ones.
  - lazyant 10y ago
    "As long as you don't break the law you are fine" this is the excuse that dictatorship apologists give "well, if you behaved and didn't demonstrate and didn't join a left/right party you were fine under Pinochet/Ceaucescu"

I didn't know that! ... anyway, yes I'm afraid, I just did what I felt to be my "duty" and hope for the best :)

erlehmann_ 10y ago

Just never – ever – visit UAE again.

evilsocket 10y ago
ahaha of course not! :D
- angry_octet 10y ago
  Or any of the GCC states. https://www.hrw.org/news/2014/04/26/gcc-joint-security-agreement-imperils-rights https://www.hrw.org/news/2014/04/26/gcc-joint-security-agree...
cup 10y ago
I like the UAE. As long as you don't break their laws the experience is fine. To be honest, I'm more frightened of going to America as a non-white person where even obeying the laws can result in death. Edit: If you disagree with my post please add to the conversation rather than just down-voting.
- ethanbond 10y ago
  There's not even a way to frame a disagreement. Your statement is just intellectually dishonest. You can die obeying the laws anywhere as a person of any race. America has problems with racial violence, but your comment indicates a total disconnect from reality in pretty much every way.
- nfd 10y ago
  I'd still stay away if I were evilsocket.
- erlehmann_ 10y ago
  Referring to racial discrimination in the west as reaction to allegations of human rights abuse is a quite old technique: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/And_you_are_lynching_Negroes https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/And_you_are_lynching_Negroes Edit: The rhetorical device is called a “whataboutism”. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whataboutism https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whataboutism. The fallacy involved is called “to quoque” – a special case of an “ad hominem” argument, i.e. attacking the speaker and not the content. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tu_quoque https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tu_quoque
  - upofadown 10y ago
    There was no attempt to excuse human rights abuses in the post you are responding to. Only a comment about visiting such places vs the US while brown. In general despotic regimes love visitors who are willing to keep their opinions about the local political situation to themselves no matter what sort of person they are. Places like the US tend to be indifferent to the political beliefs of visitors and as a result any local racial biases will be applied fairly to those visiting.
- tome 10y ago
  Better not get raped: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-23381448 http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-23381448
- hueving 10y ago
  The chances of you dieing from law enforcement acting in a racist manner are vanishingly small and it is still illegal. The uae condones killing people for being gay as a matter of policy. Don't expect much more than downvotes when you attempt to portray as the US being worse in that comparison.
  - enraged_camel 10y ago
    The difference of course is that one can hide the fact that one is gay. It's not so easy to hide that one is black.
    - erlehmann_ 10y ago
      Which might be one reason why they need surveillance. For many people, even a simple web search might turn up stuff that could get them arrested. For this reason, I have decided not to visit countries where some of the content on web sites I am responsible for is illegal.
    - hueving 10y ago
      The difference of course is that one is discrimination based on law, while the other is a minority of bad actors acting illegally. >It's not so easy to hide that one is black. Sure it is. Wear a burka every time you are in public. This suggestion is also as ridiculous as suggesting that people hide the fact that they are gay.
      - brokenmachine 10y ago
        > Wear a burka every time you are in public. This suggestion is also as ridiculous as suggesting that people hide the fact that they are gay. So let me get this right: You are comparing the ridiculousness of a black person having to wear a burka in the US to avoid being shot, versus the ridiculousness of a gay person having to hide the fact that they are gay while in the UAE? I'm sorry, it just doesn't sound as ridiculous to me to expect someone to take care not to utter the words, "I am gay" while in a country where being gay can get you legally killed, as opposed to the ridiculousness of a black person having to wear a burka in the US to avoid being shot illegally. Being black in the US is legal, and being shot for being a black person in the US is uncommon. The burden of having to wear a burka all the time lest your blackness be discovered is large. Being gay in the UAE is illegal and punishable by death. The burden of not saying certain particular words to expose your gayness is small. Ergo, the black guy having to wear a burka option is clearly more ridiculous.
- benologist 10y ago
  Indonesia banned their women from working in the UAE and 20 of their neighbors because of the abuse, maiming and killing by their employers and judicial systems. http://edition.cnn.com/2015/05/06/asia/indonesia-migrant-worker-ban/ http://edition.cnn.com/2015/05/06/asia/indonesia-migrant-wor...
- JabavuAdams 10y ago
  I am disgusted by the race and policing problems in the US, but you have to have some perspective. I've never had a problem as a half-black Canadian business traveler. That doesn't mean I'm not anxious. All though the US may legitimately seem callous and murderous to those on the sharp end of its foreign policy, there are a whole lot of Americans who take this freedom thing seriously. More important, there is a culture of free speech and of challenging government.
  - erlehmann_ 10y ago
    I think an important difference is that the victims of most US actions like abduction, imprisonment without trial, torture or assassinations are not US citizens – and it is often done in a foreign country. Because of that, it does not stifle political debate. Example: The current US administration apparently has a “kill list” for enemies of the US government that they plan to assassinate. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Disposition_Matrix https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Disposition_Matrix I find such a thing scary and unethical. Yet, as I understand it, domestic political opponents of US politicians do not have to fear torture, disappearance, or imprisonment without trial – it is even possible to openly criticize the people who command such assassinations without being in danger of being executed by the government.
- moptar 10y ago
  The UAE really does have a low crime rate. The people being disappeared, flogged, etc are typically breaking the law. We in the west might not agree with those laws, but they're still written laws that you can simply avoid breaking to keep yourself safe. The same goes in any country. They all have different laws. You can be convicted for buying counterfeit clothes in Italy, Having sex with a 17 year old in the US (despite it being legal in the UK), Possessing certain types of hand-drawn pornography in Australia (despite it being legal in the US), Posting threatening messages on Facebook in the US, downloading music from the internet in the US.
- __jal 10y ago
  Personally, I'm more interested in the perception than in the sorts of defensiveness that I'm seeing in response. Sure, statistically, most visitors aren't going to have any problem with our screwed up police. But remember that, statistically, your average voter is more likely to drown in a bucket[1] than be a victim of terrorism, and look at what has been done since 2001 "to keep us safe". Fear is not rational, and "you're wrong" or "I have this issue with your rhetorical technique" is not going to change any minds. [1] Picked statistically unlikely event at random; did not look up actual statistics. You get the point and I'm not going to respond to pedantry.
- Olscore 10y ago
  Your comment shows the level of misinformation and reputation damage done by media and various social movements. America is safe for all law-abiding persons. Not only do I disagree with your comment, but I find it offensive that you would propagate the myth. It's damaging and unsubstantiated.
  - throwaway-hn123 10y ago
    > America is safe for all law-abiding persons. This is patently not true. You can blame social media, or SJW's or whatever, but it is not true, except in the minds of the alt-right.
    - Olscore 10y ago
      Says the person using a throwaway account. So brave. May as well consider you an alt-coward, since you'll insinuate connection with the alt-right. Tit for tat, buddy.
      - throwaway-hn123 10y ago
        Yes, the person using a throwaway account says that your statement is patently false. And as you attacked the only thing you could attack, I assume you know that as well, "buddy"!
        Olscore 10y ago
        Nice astro-turfing in your comment history. Remember my name buddy, I won't remember yours.
        throwaway-hn123 10y ago
        > Remember my name buddy, I won't remember yours. Sure, I will remember your name, Olsco. My name isn't hard to remember - it's Away; Throw Away. > Nice astro-turfing in your comment history Do you not even know what astroturfing is? Keep attacking my HN handle - just shows that you know your statement was patently, absurdly and almost hilariously false.
- qwertyuiop924 10y ago
  I don't just disagree with your post: in light of what evilsocket just stated, your claims are downright ludocrious.
- johnnyhillbilly 10y ago
  Even though I also try to stay away from the US, attitudes like these are in a different league: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=bV710c1dgpU https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=bV710c1dgpU
- euske 10y ago
  What you probably don't know is that America is a very big and complex country. It's so big that you can love one part and hate the other part at the same time. It's so complex that even its government is not entirely a single rock. There are avid defenders of human rights as well as evil masters in its government. Somehow they are both coexisting. That's how big America is. I'm non-white and non-American and I certainly hate some ugly parts of it. But I have mixed feeling to America. I guess it's a kind of feeling that many people have towards the country.
  - imbeau 10y ago
    One of the more accurate descriptions of America that I've seen. It's truly a country of contradictions.
  - flukus 10y ago
    What you probably don't know is that this describes just about every country, even some of the tiny pacific island ones.
- lazyant 10y ago
  "As long as you don't break the law you are fine" this is the excuse that dictatorship apologists give "well, if you behaved and didn't demonstrate and didn't join a left/right party you were fine under Pinochet/Ceaucescu"