5 ms·

By November, Russian hackers could target voting machines

39 points by cjdulberger 10y ago

elgabogringo 10y ago
That's preposterous, don't you know the cold war is over? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T1409sXBleg https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T1409sXBleg
- zghst 10y ago
  Smug, condescending, and dismissive are recurring traits in politicians who eventually eat their words
  - elgabogringo 10y ago
    And remember when Hillary "pushed the reset button" with Russia - because (I guess) relations with them were so bad under Bush - but her team screwed up the translation? That was a classic: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/7930047.stm http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/7930047.stm
OneNoteIsFree 10y ago
No need, they should voter fraud Hillary style. Seriously though, the wapo/nytimes BS on Trump is getting old
zghst 10y ago
Part of me doesn't like the whole red scare deal, but also, electronic voting machines should be banned outright. You think that after the OPM scandal that those things have the highest security??
- alva 10y ago
  This Red Scare is getting ridiculous now. One of the best things to come out of this election is how much political strategy has been exposed to the general public, inc. media complicity. I have so little faith in the political parties and media.
  - eternalban 10y ago
    They are practically proactively announcing that they intend to invalidate the election results. Coupled with previously announced NATO's position regarding cyber warfare, we are looking at potential nuclear war. Given that Russians blinked in the missile crisis and Yugoslavia, the establishment appears to think Russians will blink yet again. But China will not. They crossed the Yalu river in the Korean war and they will not wait until their turn comes. They are not stupid. The power elite are entirely out of control, drunk with power.
    - alva 10y ago
      Unfortunately I am discovering lots of those in tech VC are complicit with the political power elite. Many are pushing the Russia meme on twitter/FB , despite the flimsy evidence and obvious push as a political strategy. I do not think many of them actually believe what they are saying. Terrifying.
      - r00fus 10y ago
        You don't get promoted past a certain point in many large US corporations if you don't support the power structure. Thanks to facebook trackers and and other such browser analytics, it's entirely possible for most HR departments to easily fingerprint you (ostensibly to ensure you're not a threat - e.g. militant in sheep's clothing or other loose cannon).
  - zghst 10y ago
    As do I. My stomach has been churning in disgust seeing the collusion big money media and politicians. This latest attempt to drum up the Russian boogeyman is incredibly laughable, especially since they laughed it off four years ago. Yes Russia is corrupt, shitty regime, but they can't be culpable for every U.S. politician's failures and dirty deeds (where the inverse happens in the Russia), we've become so much like our so called "enemies", obeying and apologizing to top party members, publishing stories that only favor our dear leaders, etc.
    - 10y ago
excalibur 10y ago
We'll have 5 different organizations trying to rig the same election to further their own agendas. Which group is the smartest? Whose manipulations will carry the day? Find out next time on Who Wants to Screw a -19 Trillionaire!
nice1 10y ago
So, do you guys really think the Russians wrote all those emails that were released before the convention?
mikeash 10y ago
When does this sort of thing become an act of war? It seems like "cyber" stuff is taken much less seriously in that respect. Maybe it just gets more attention.
boneheadmed 10y ago
" Even so, we have to accept that someone is attacking our nation’s computer systems in an apparent attempt to influence a presidential election. " This is so comical. If the DNC was actually acting in an ethical, responsible and legal way, the email release would not influence the election one wit. Instead it makes it even more clear that their apparatus had already chosen the winner - and it wasn't Sanders. On the other: Why even have computerized ballots? Back to paper. Not perfect, but hacking problem solved.
scigeek42 10y ago
Obligatory XKCD reference: https://xkcd.com/463/ https://xkcd.com/463/
eternalban 10y ago
Not a problem. Let's use paper. (And dear Supreme Court, kindly stick to the constitution this time.)
mlvljr 10y ago
All yr votin machines belon to us!! гыгы :)
nxc18 10y ago
The whole concept of electronic voting machines seems ridiculous to me. Not only are they open to attacks at every level, there really isn't a significant benefit to implementing them, beyond possibly saving some trees. The peace of mind in trusting election results seems well worth the hassle of paper. The other big component that I think is missing from the debate over electronic voting is the cost to communities. I loved voting (on paper) in the 2012 election, then staying up a few hours to tally the ballots with the community. Voters came together to count the ballots together and deliver a final count, which has the dual benefit of getting as many eyes on the process as possible (less chance of fraud) and putting 'by the people' back into the election process. I've seen complaints that that isn't scalable, but I don't buy it. Any community can be broken up into sub-groups that can cast their ballots locally and work together to tally them, even if a group just covers a city block.
- fryguy 10y ago
  One could argue that a properly implemented method of voting that involves computers in some capacity would decrease the chance of fraud, and allow voters to verify that their vote was counted. It could also allow more votes to be counted because it could immediately tell them their vote was invalid (how many hanging chads in Florida 2000?). The problem is that we have companies like Diebold make this stuff. Companies that want to make a buck and cover their asses rather than make something secure and good for the people.
memracom 10y ago
If voting machines are that insecure, then you should be worried about Chinese hackers, and Arab hackers and even American Republican hackers. Let's be frank, voting machines that are insecure can be exploited by ANYBODY who cares to influence an election and those with the most to gain/lose are members/supporters of the parties whose candidates are standing for election. In other words USA hackers should be your main worry. If you can secure the voting systems against them, then you have a chance at a fair election. Otherwise all bets are off and all the foreign hackers will be battling over who controls the vote.
ommunist 10y ago
They do not need to, since siloviki silently support Trump anyway.

39 points by cjdulberger 10y ago

That's preposterous, don't you know the cold war is over? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T1409sXBleg https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T1409sXBleg

zghst 10y ago
Smug, condescending, and dismissive are recurring traits in politicians who eventually eat their words
- elgabogringo 10y ago
  And remember when Hillary "pushed the reset button" with Russia - because (I guess) relations with them were so bad under Bush - but her team screwed up the translation? That was a classic: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/7930047.stm http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/7930047.stm

OneNoteIsFree 10y ago

No need, they should voter fraud Hillary style. Seriously though, the wapo/nytimes BS on Trump is getting old

zghst 10y ago

Part of me doesn't like the whole red scare deal, but also, electronic voting machines should be banned outright. You think that after the OPM scandal that those things have the highest security??

alva 10y ago
This Red Scare is getting ridiculous now. One of the best things to come out of this election is how much political strategy has been exposed to the general public, inc. media complicity. I have so little faith in the political parties and media.
- eternalban 10y ago
  They are practically proactively announcing that they intend to invalidate the election results. Coupled with previously announced NATO's position regarding cyber warfare, we are looking at potential nuclear war. Given that Russians blinked in the missile crisis and Yugoslavia, the establishment appears to think Russians will blink yet again. But China will not. They crossed the Yalu river in the Korean war and they will not wait until their turn comes. They are not stupid. The power elite are entirely out of control, drunk with power.
  - alva 10y ago
    Unfortunately I am discovering lots of those in tech VC are complicit with the political power elite. Many are pushing the Russia meme on twitter/FB , despite the flimsy evidence and obvious push as a political strategy. I do not think many of them actually believe what they are saying. Terrifying.
    - r00fus 10y ago
      You don't get promoted past a certain point in many large US corporations if you don't support the power structure. Thanks to facebook trackers and and other such browser analytics, it's entirely possible for most HR departments to easily fingerprint you (ostensibly to ensure you're not a threat - e.g. militant in sheep's clothing or other loose cannon).
- zghst 10y ago
  As do I. My stomach has been churning in disgust seeing the collusion big money media and politicians. This latest attempt to drum up the Russian boogeyman is incredibly laughable, especially since they laughed it off four years ago. Yes Russia is corrupt, shitty regime, but they can't be culpable for every U.S. politician's failures and dirty deeds (where the inverse happens in the Russia), we've become so much like our so called "enemies", obeying and apologizing to top party members, publishing stories that only favor our dear leaders, etc.
  - 10y ago

excalibur 10y ago

We'll have 5 different organizations trying to rig the same election to further their own agendas. Which group is the smartest? Whose manipulations will carry the day? Find out next time on Who Wants to Screw a -19 Trillionaire!

nice1 10y ago

So, do you guys really think the Russians wrote all those emails that were released before the convention?

mikeash 10y ago

When does this sort of thing become an act of war? It seems like "cyber" stuff is taken much less seriously in that respect. Maybe it just gets more attention.

boneheadmed 10y ago

" Even so, we have to accept that someone is attacking our nation’s computer systems in an apparent attempt to influence a presidential election. " This is so comical. If the DNC was actually acting in an ethical, responsible and legal way, the email release would not influence the election one wit. Instead it makes it even more clear that their apparatus had already chosen the winner - and it wasn't Sanders. On the other: Why even have computerized ballots? Back to paper. Not perfect, but hacking problem solved.

scigeek42 10y ago

Obligatory XKCD reference: https://xkcd.com/463/ https://xkcd.com/463/

eternalban 10y ago

Not a problem. Let's use paper. (And dear Supreme Court, kindly stick to the constitution this time.)

mlvljr 10y ago

All yr votin machines belon to us!! гыгы :)

nxc18 10y ago

The whole concept of electronic voting machines seems ridiculous to me. Not only are they open to attacks at every level, there really isn't a significant benefit to implementing them, beyond possibly saving some trees. The peace of mind in trusting election results seems well worth the hassle of paper. The other big component that I think is missing from the debate over electronic voting is the cost to communities. I loved voting (on paper) in the 2012 election, then staying up a few hours to tally the ballots with the community. Voters came together to count the ballots together and deliver a final count, which has the dual benefit of getting as many eyes on the process as possible (less chance of fraud) and putting 'by the people' back into the election process. I've seen complaints that that isn't scalable, but I don't buy it. Any community can be broken up into sub-groups that can cast their ballots locally and work together to tally them, even if a group just covers a city block.

fryguy 10y ago
One could argue that a properly implemented method of voting that involves computers in some capacity would decrease the chance of fraud, and allow voters to verify that their vote was counted. It could also allow more votes to be counted because it could immediately tell them their vote was invalid (how many hanging chads in Florida 2000?). The problem is that we have companies like Diebold make this stuff. Companies that want to make a buck and cover their asses rather than make something secure and good for the people.

memracom 10y ago

If voting machines are that insecure, then you should be worried about Chinese hackers, and Arab hackers and even American Republican hackers. Let's be frank, voting machines that are insecure can be exploited by ANYBODY who cares to influence an election and those with the most to gain/lose are members/supporters of the parties whose candidates are standing for election. In other words USA hackers should be your main worry. If you can secure the voting systems against them, then you have a chance at a fair election. Otherwise all bets are off and all the foreign hackers will be battling over who controls the vote.

ommunist 10y ago

They do not need to, since siloviki silently support Trump anyway.