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> This, I think, has the weakest link to Trump; obviously the "Make America Great Again" slogan speaks to nostalgia, but I do think Eco here is talking about a

by jfoutz 10y ago

> This, I think, has the weakest link to Trump; obviously the "Make America Great Again" slogan speaks to nostalgia, but I do think Eco here is talking about a particular kind of primordial, ancient tradition that is present in European fascism. America doesn't really have the sense of a people dating back thousands of years, so we avoid it. I disagree. As other posters pointed out Fascism infects with it's own unique flavor of the host country. In the US, post ww2 was an idilic time (not really, but there's so much rockwell imagery). It's post slavery and genocide. It ends with landing on the moon. The mythic version of the post war boom is appealing. High paying jobs. A house with a white picket fence. A new car every few years. Everyone lives in a small town and knows their neighbors. Kids go fishing with grandpa. it's a fantasy, it avoids so many deep problems, but it's easy to see the appeal. I would expect trump to knock off "morning in america" [1] for his positive ads. (if he winds up having positive ads). [1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EU-IBF8nwSY https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EU-IBF8nwSY

amyjess 10y ago
> I would expect trump to knock off "morning in america" [1] for his positive ads. (if he winds up having positive ads). I agree with the rest of your post, but the feel of "Morning in America" doesn't jibe with Trump's "Make America Great Again" spiel. "Morning in America" was Reagan's re-election campaign ad. It was saying "see what Reagan did for America in his first term; let's vote for four more years of it!". In other words, it's a form of "America is Already Great, Let's Keep It That Way".
flubert 10y ago
>High paying jobs. A house with a white picket fence. A new car every few years. Everyone lives in a small town and knows their neighbors. Kids go fishing with grandpa. it's a fantasy ...can you tell us a little bit more about how you see the fantasy part? Is that something you think is unobtainable for most people? And the reason is automation, or globalism, or climate change, or X. (I'm just curious to get another/urban/foreign perspective, since my kids just got back from two weeks of fishing with Grandpa, but we don't have a picket fence).
- jfoutz 10y ago
  When my mother was a little girl, she traveled with her grandmother across the country, probably 1958 or so. They stopped at a gas station. My mother went in the "wrong" bathroom. It created an awkward situation. The post ww2 boom had some wonderful effects. There were, and still are some ugly aspects to that time that are easy to gloss over. IIRC, it wasn't legally possible to rape a spouse. The Cuyahoga River was so polluted it would catch on fire, the largest in 1952. There were some very ugly parts to that time. if you weren't a white man with a good job, i think it was pretty rough. The nostalgic view tends to wash away those ugly parts. edit This is probably a harsher reply than was warrented by your question, but... it's easy to be misty eyed about that time. I wasn't around, but i think it sucked for a lot of people.
  - flubert 10y ago
    Ah, I misunderstood what you said, and the fantasy part is the overlooking of historical problems. Any thoughts on the white picket fence as an aspiration nowadays?
    - jfoutz 10y ago
      I'd hope people do what they like. You want it, go for it! But if you really want a little apartment with a cat and stacks of books, go for that. I think there's was a pressure to get married, buy a house and start having kids, at least through the 80's. There's nothing wrong with that, and it makes lots of people happy. I could do that, but i don't want the commute.

by jfoutz 10y ago

amyjess 10y ago

> I would expect trump to knock off "morning in america" [1] for his positive ads. (if he winds up having positive ads). I agree with the rest of your post, but the feel of "Morning in America" doesn't jibe with Trump's "Make America Great Again" spiel. "Morning in America" was Reagan's re-election campaign ad. It was saying "see what Reagan did for America in his first term; let's vote for four more years of it!". In other words, it's a form of "America is Already Great, Let's Keep It That Way".

flubert 10y ago

>High paying jobs. A house with a white picket fence. A new car every few years. Everyone lives in a small town and knows their neighbors. Kids go fishing with grandpa. it's a fantasy ...can you tell us a little bit more about how you see the fantasy part? Is that something you think is unobtainable for most people? And the reason is automation, or globalism, or climate change, or X. (I'm just curious to get another/urban/foreign perspective, since my kids just got back from two weeks of fishing with Grandpa, but we don't have a picket fence).

jfoutz 10y ago
When my mother was a little girl, she traveled with her grandmother across the country, probably 1958 or so. They stopped at a gas station. My mother went in the "wrong" bathroom. It created an awkward situation. The post ww2 boom had some wonderful effects. There were, and still are some ugly aspects to that time that are easy to gloss over. IIRC, it wasn't legally possible to rape a spouse. The Cuyahoga River was so polluted it would catch on fire, the largest in 1952. There were some very ugly parts to that time. if you weren't a white man with a good job, i think it was pretty rough. The nostalgic view tends to wash away those ugly parts. edit This is probably a harsher reply than was warrented by your question, but... it's easy to be misty eyed about that time. I wasn't around, but i think it sucked for a lot of people.
- flubert 10y ago
  Ah, I misunderstood what you said, and the fantasy part is the overlooking of historical problems. Any thoughts on the white picket fence as an aspiration nowadays?
  - jfoutz 10y ago
    I'd hope people do what they like. You want it, go for it! But if you really want a little apartment with a cat and stacks of books, go for that. I think there's was a pressure to get married, buy a house and start having kids, at least through the 80's. There's nothing wrong with that, and it makes lots of people happy. I could do that, but i don't want the commute.