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I don't know if he actually said that but isn't all innovation incremental? I understand he put his heart and soul into it, but there has been tons of people wh

I don't know if he actually said that but isn't all innovation incremental? I understand he put his heart and soul into it, but there has been tons of people who have worked equally hard before him to get to where he got (Apple itself copied it's UI from Xerox). Apple has also blatantly copied and consumed many companies in the past. There is so much code copied around these days. This is all just the way it is and how we have decided to move ahead as a society. Making judgments on others is uncalled for.

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leonroy 10y ago
> I don't know if he actually said that but isn't all innovation incremental? He said exactly that: http://www.vanityfair.com/news/tech/2014/10/jony-ive-lessons-from-steve-jobs http://www.vanityfair.com/news/tech/2014/10/jony-ive-lessons... And yes innovation is incremental but this is Xiaomi not simply borrowing design cues but literally cloning a design. See for yourself - here's their take on Japanese company Balmuda's air purifier: https://www.balmuda.com/jp/airengine/ https://www.balmuda.com/jp/airengine/ Xiaomi's version: http://www.mi.com/en/air/ http://www.mi.com/en/air/
- nullcipher 10y ago
  Other than the white color, they actually look different to me. That said, I can show you two editors which look completely alike. I hope you feel the same about them. Imagine if I said: Atom is such a rip off and the sublime guy must be feeling that GitHub is lazy and a thief. I wonder if GitHub compensated the sublime author who is a small indie dev! http://cache.filehippo.com/img/ex/2794__Sublime_text_2_1.png http://cache.filehippo.com/img/ex/2794__Sublime_text_2_1.png http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-9QBldnFnock/U3PgeKnq-SI/AAAAAAAAStk/WJV5ZlxGKvo/s1600/atom-0950.png http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-9QBldnFnock/U3PgeKnq-SI/AAAAAAAASt...
  - freyir 10y ago
    > Imagine if I said: Atom is such a rip off and the sublime guy must be feeling that GitHub is lazy and a thief. Edit: my original comment wasn't very constructive. My issue with the analogy is that Xiaomi openly copies the design of competing products that have gained success, at least in part, due to having differentiated designs. Usually they copy without providing even incremental innovation or product differentiation. In the case of Sublime Text vs. Atom, GitHub developed an editor with a fundamentally different underlying architecture. Github also made Atom open source, which addressed one of the main complaints against Sublime Text. Atom offered obvious and non-trivial product differentiation. Also, Xiaomi specifically targets products that have distinctive designs. Sublime Text's design doesn't look that distinctive. What are the components of the design (excluding configurable parameters like a light/dark theme) that Atom copied? The main similarity I see are the tabs, but neither look distinct from most other tabs (i.e., Chrome browser tabs).
    - nullcipher 10y ago
      Parent comment gave screenshots and claimed things are copied. I am also giving two screenshots and telling you that those are copied. What is the point I am missing?
      - leonroy 10y ago
        Looks like Balmuda (original designer of the air purifier) is claiming the same: http://www.pcworld.com/article/2858592/xiaomi-faces-copycat-charge-from-japanese-company-over-new-air-purifier.html http://www.pcworld.com/article/2858592/xiaomi-faces-copycat-...
- WayneBro 10y ago
  We're talking about the Jony Ive who designs rectangles? Meh. Him and Apple have stolen plenty! Isn't Steve Jobs famously quoted as saying "great artists steal"? Anyway, what's the fucking difference if you steal a few pieces here and there or the whole thing? Nothing. (EDIT: A piece of something is still a whole piece that you've stolen. And Apple has also stolen entire apps, like Konfabulator. They get no sympathy from me.)
  - deleted 10y ago
    [deleted]
  - astrodust 10y ago
    Apple literally redefined what a smart phone is. While he borrowed design cues from history, Braun in particular, applying that to the phone space and coming up with a design language that had durability was a big breakthrough. Remember in 2006 Nokia, Motorola, RIM and others made literally everything but rectangular phones. They were covered in buttons and other crap. Ive's vision of a virtually button free phone was strikingly different at the time, a device even simpler than the Star Trek communicator pad. >Anyway, what's the fucking difference if you steal a few pieces here and there or the whole thing? Nothing. It's very hard to strip something down to the essential components and integrate those into a package that becomes obvious in retrospect. The steering wheel in a car, the magnetic seal on a refrigerator door, these are all obvious now but at the time were huge breakthroughs. If you can't see the difference between copying and working to reduce something down to the fundamentals you're obviously unaware of how one is lazy and the other is crazy hard.
    - uola 10y ago
      The Sony Ericsson P800/P900/P910 had a removable keypad making them effectively rectangular phones. The Neonode N1 had a touch driven interface, including the slide to unlock feature. Then there were PDAs like Sony Clie PEG-TH55. All this a couple of years before the iPhone. The reason phones didn't look like rectangles wasn't because no one had the idea, but because screens were expensive and touch technology (and other technologies like data) wasn't mature yet. That's why you had something like the LG Prada come out at the same time (or even slightly before) the iPhone. Just because you are first to adopt something (e.g. because your customers don't mind paying a premium and you've secretly developed it for years including controlling the supply chain) doesn't mean you should have the sole right to use a concept derived from evolution of components. P910 http://pdadb.net/img/sony_ericsson_p910.jpg http://pdadb.net/img/sony_ericsson_p910.jpg Neonode N1 http://images.dailytech.com/nimage/Neonode_N1_Sept_2004.jpg http://images.dailytech.com/nimage/Neonode_N1_Sept_2004.jpg Sony Clie PEG-TH55 https://cnet3.cbsistatic.com/hub/i/r/2010/08/03/b26d3392-67c5-11e3-a665-14feb5ca9861/thumbnail/770x433/7668c0c8969b4ad46849bf3676b17ea6/30733801-2-440-front-2.gif https://cnet3.cbsistatic.com/hub/i/r/2010/08/03/b26d3392-67c... LG Prada http://image.cellphones.ca/images/phones/74/767/lg-prada-full-1.jpg http://image.cellphones.ca/images/phones/74/767/lg-prada-ful...
- Teever 10y ago
  How many different designs can one really come up with for a space efficient air purifier anyways? Imagine if someone complained because a tire manufacturer came out with a gasp round wheel.
Aloha 10y ago
Apple's UI and the UI from the Alto are while conceptually similar (insomuch as any two cars are conceptually similar), not even in the same family, in look, feel or user interaction - its a bit like comparing a Model T with a 39 Ford - while both are cars, the controls work in pretty dissimilar manners. Alto: http://s7.computerhistory.org/is/image/CHM/500004657-03-01?$re-medium$ http://s7.computerhistory.org/is/image/CHM/500004657-03-01?$... Lisa: http://www.digibarn.com/collections/systems/apple-lisa2xl/apple_lisa_screenshot.gif http://www.digibarn.com/collections/systems/apple-lisa2xl/ap... Mac System 1: http://applemuseum.bott.org/sections/images/screenshots/system1.1/desktop.gif http://applemuseum.bott.org/sections/images/screenshots/syst...

deleted 10y ago

[deleted]

leonroy 10y ago

> I don't know if he actually said that but isn't all innovation incremental? He said exactly that: http://www.vanityfair.com/news/tech/2014/10/jony-ive-lessons-from-steve-jobs http://www.vanityfair.com/news/tech/2014/10/jony-ive-lessons... And yes innovation is incremental but this is Xiaomi not simply borrowing design cues but literally cloning a design. See for yourself - here's their take on Japanese company Balmuda's air purifier: https://www.balmuda.com/jp/airengine/ https://www.balmuda.com/jp/airengine/ Xiaomi's version: http://www.mi.com/en/air/ http://www.mi.com/en/air/

nullcipher 10y ago
Other than the white color, they actually look different to me. That said, I can show you two editors which look completely alike. I hope you feel the same about them. Imagine if I said: Atom is such a rip off and the sublime guy must be feeling that GitHub is lazy and a thief. I wonder if GitHub compensated the sublime author who is a small indie dev! http://cache.filehippo.com/img/ex/2794__Sublime_text_2_1.png http://cache.filehippo.com/img/ex/2794__Sublime_text_2_1.png http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-9QBldnFnock/U3PgeKnq-SI/AAAAAAAAStk/WJV5ZlxGKvo/s1600/atom-0950.png http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-9QBldnFnock/U3PgeKnq-SI/AAAAAAAASt...
- freyir 10y ago
  > Imagine if I said: Atom is such a rip off and the sublime guy must be feeling that GitHub is lazy and a thief. Edit: my original comment wasn't very constructive. My issue with the analogy is that Xiaomi openly copies the design of competing products that have gained success, at least in part, due to having differentiated designs. Usually they copy without providing even incremental innovation or product differentiation. In the case of Sublime Text vs. Atom, GitHub developed an editor with a fundamentally different underlying architecture. Github also made Atom open source, which addressed one of the main complaints against Sublime Text. Atom offered obvious and non-trivial product differentiation. Also, Xiaomi specifically targets products that have distinctive designs. Sublime Text's design doesn't look that distinctive. What are the components of the design (excluding configurable parameters like a light/dark theme) that Atom copied? The main similarity I see are the tabs, but neither look distinct from most other tabs (i.e., Chrome browser tabs).
  - nullcipher 10y ago
    Parent comment gave screenshots and claimed things are copied. I am also giving two screenshots and telling you that those are copied. What is the point I am missing?
    - leonroy 10y ago
      Looks like Balmuda (original designer of the air purifier) is claiming the same: http://www.pcworld.com/article/2858592/xiaomi-faces-copycat-charge-from-japanese-company-over-new-air-purifier.html http://www.pcworld.com/article/2858592/xiaomi-faces-copycat-...
WayneBro 10y ago
We're talking about the Jony Ive who designs rectangles? Meh. Him and Apple have stolen plenty! Isn't Steve Jobs famously quoted as saying "great artists steal"? Anyway, what's the fucking difference if you steal a few pieces here and there or the whole thing? Nothing. (EDIT: A piece of something is still a whole piece that you've stolen. And Apple has also stolen entire apps, like Konfabulator. They get no sympathy from me.)
- deleted 10y ago
  [deleted]
- astrodust 10y ago
  Apple literally redefined what a smart phone is. While he borrowed design cues from history, Braun in particular, applying that to the phone space and coming up with a design language that had durability was a big breakthrough. Remember in 2006 Nokia, Motorola, RIM and others made literally everything but rectangular phones. They were covered in buttons and other crap. Ive's vision of a virtually button free phone was strikingly different at the time, a device even simpler than the Star Trek communicator pad. >Anyway, what's the fucking difference if you steal a few pieces here and there or the whole thing? Nothing. It's very hard to strip something down to the essential components and integrate those into a package that becomes obvious in retrospect. The steering wheel in a car, the magnetic seal on a refrigerator door, these are all obvious now but at the time were huge breakthroughs. If you can't see the difference between copying and working to reduce something down to the fundamentals you're obviously unaware of how one is lazy and the other is crazy hard.
  - uola 10y ago
    The Sony Ericsson P800/P900/P910 had a removable keypad making them effectively rectangular phones. The Neonode N1 had a touch driven interface, including the slide to unlock feature. Then there were PDAs like Sony Clie PEG-TH55. All this a couple of years before the iPhone. The reason phones didn't look like rectangles wasn't because no one had the idea, but because screens were expensive and touch technology (and other technologies like data) wasn't mature yet. That's why you had something like the LG Prada come out at the same time (or even slightly before) the iPhone. Just because you are first to adopt something (e.g. because your customers don't mind paying a premium and you've secretly developed it for years including controlling the supply chain) doesn't mean you should have the sole right to use a concept derived from evolution of components. P910 http://pdadb.net/img/sony_ericsson_p910.jpg http://pdadb.net/img/sony_ericsson_p910.jpg Neonode N1 http://images.dailytech.com/nimage/Neonode_N1_Sept_2004.jpg http://images.dailytech.com/nimage/Neonode_N1_Sept_2004.jpg Sony Clie PEG-TH55 https://cnet3.cbsistatic.com/hub/i/r/2010/08/03/b26d3392-67c5-11e3-a665-14feb5ca9861/thumbnail/770x433/7668c0c8969b4ad46849bf3676b17ea6/30733801-2-440-front-2.gif https://cnet3.cbsistatic.com/hub/i/r/2010/08/03/b26d3392-67c... LG Prada http://image.cellphones.ca/images/phones/74/767/lg-prada-full-1.jpg http://image.cellphones.ca/images/phones/74/767/lg-prada-ful...
Teever 10y ago
How many different designs can one really come up with for a space efficient air purifier anyways? Imagine if someone complained because a tire manufacturer came out with a gasp round wheel.

Aloha 10y ago

Apple's UI and the UI from the Alto are while conceptually similar (insomuch as any two cars are conceptually similar), not even in the same family, in look, feel or user interaction - its a bit like comparing a Model T with a 39 Ford - while both are cars, the controls work in pretty dissimilar manners. Alto: http://s7.computerhistory.org/is/image/CHM/500004657-03-01?$re-medium$ http://s7.computerhistory.org/is/image/CHM/500004657-03-01?$... Lisa: http://www.digibarn.com/collections/systems/apple-lisa2xl/apple_lisa_screenshot.gif http://www.digibarn.com/collections/systems/apple-lisa2xl/ap... Mac System 1: http://applemuseum.bott.org/sections/images/screenshots/system1.1/desktop.gif http://applemuseum.bott.org/sections/images/screenshots/syst...