6 ms·

Similar feedback, starting salaries seem about right, but beyond that seem low, the rating system isn't science and the CoL adjustment only for SF, NYC and Lond

Similar feedback, starting salaries seem about right, but beyond that seem low, the rating system isn't science and the CoL adjustment only for SF, NYC and London misses other expensive cities. For instance, like for like (new construction in the most desirable neighborhoods), Boston housing is just as expensive as SF and in general your money goes further in SF.

dpark 10y ago
> For instance, like for like (new construction in the most desirable neighborhoods), Boston housing is just as expensive as SF No it's not. It's not even close. The median home in Boston is less than $500k. That's a gut/teardown in SF, where the median is $1.1MM. If you pick brand new construction in the most desirable neighborhoods in Boston, I'm sure you could easily spend north of a million. If you pick comparable new construction in the most desirable neighborhoods in SF, I imagine you're looking at multiple millions. http://www.zillow.com/boston-ma/home-values/ http://www.zillow.com/boston-ma/home-values/ http://www.zillow.com/sanfrancisco-ca/home-values/ http://www.zillow.com/sanfrancisco-ca/home-values/ > in general your money goes further in SF. In what way?
- seattle_spring 10y ago
  Every time SF housing prices come up, someone comes out of the woodwork to say how (Boston | Seattle | Austin) is just as expensive or even worse. They then compare some 1500 sq ft penthouse in the nicest, newest tower in their city to some slightly less expensive 19th century shithole of the same price in SF and say, "LOOK! Look! It's more expensive in my city! And MILK is 50% more here too, so it's way more expensive to live here obviously." Every. Time.
  - dpark 10y ago
    I did enjoy the fact that "like for like" somehow explicitly means the best of the best in Boston.
    - djb_hackernews 10y ago
      FWIW I was comparing like for like in both cities. I compared Back Bay new construction to SoMA new construction. Fact is, your money does go further in SF. It isn't intuitive because most of the housing stock in Boston is old, cramped, or needs significant repair...or all 3. But that doesn't come across when you compare aggregate sqft prices, it just looks like Boston is cheaper.
      - dpark 10y ago
        > FWIW I was comparing like for like in both cities. I compared Back Bay new construction to SoMA new construction. Back Bay is the most expensive neighborhood in Boston. If you want to compare to SF, then SoMA is probably not the appropriate neighborhood. There are several neighborhoods in SF that cost multiples of Back Bay. * Back Bay: $863,200 * Pacific Heights: $1,877,500 * Noe Valley: $1,652,100 * Russian Hill: $1,593,600 If you actually want to compare "like for like", let's look at a really expensive SF neighborhood. * Presidio Heights: $4,911,300 > Fact is, your money does go further in SF. It isn't intuitive because most of the housing stock in Boston is old, cramped, or needs significant repair...or all 3. But that doesn't come across when you compare aggregate sqft prices, it just looks like Boston is cheaper. Isn't most of the housing in every major city old, cramped, and in need of repair? SF has plenty of old, cramped housing that costs a million dollars. You can't cherry-pick the absolute top-end of the Boston market and compare it to an average neighborhood in SF. With that logic, Seattle is more expensive than SF, too. Windermere price index is $1,239,600 vs $945,000 in SoMA. -- * http://www.zillow.com/back-bay-boston-ma/home-values/ http://www.zillow.com/back-bay-boston-ma/home-values/ * http://www.zillow.com/pacific-heights-san-francisco-ca/home-values/ http://www.zillow.com/pacific-heights-san-francisco-ca/home-... * http://www.zillow.com/noe-valley-san-francisco-ca/home-values/ http://www.zillow.com/noe-valley-san-francisco-ca/home-value... * http://www.zillow.com/russian-hill-san-francisco-ca/home-values/ http://www.zillow.com/russian-hill-san-francisco-ca/home-val... * http://www.zillow.com/presidio-heights-san-francisco-ca/home-values/ http://www.zillow.com/presidio-heights-san-francisco-ca/home... * http://www.zillow.com/windermere-seattle-wa/home-values/ http://www.zillow.com/windermere-seattle-wa/home-values/ * http://www.zillow.com/south-of-market-san-francisco-ca/home-values/ http://www.zillow.com/south-of-market-san-francisco-ca/home-...
- djb_hackernews 10y ago
  Notice that I said like for like. If you compare new construction in the most desirable neighborhoods in both cities[0][1] SF comes out cheaper and/or your money goes further. ie, SF might be slightly more expensive but your building has 24/7 security, roof top pool, common outdoor space, etc. EDIT: A further comparison of the age of the housing stock, looking at properties currently listed within both city limits, ~33% of them in Boston were built before 1900, 8% of them in SF were built before 1900. To me this means overall the housing stock is more modern in SF which likely benefits the homeowner in energy costs, modern systems, safety, total square footage, etc. [0] https://www.redfin.com/neighborhood/293571/MA/Boston/Back-Bay/filter/sort=hi-dollarsqft,min-year-built=2005 https://www.redfin.com/neighborhood/293571/MA/Boston/Back-Ba... [1] https://www.redfin.com/neighborhood/11212/CA/San-Francisco/SoMa/filter/sort=hi-dollarsqft,min-year-built=2005 https://www.redfin.com/neighborhood/11212/CA/San-Francisco/S...
  - dpark 10y ago
    SoMA is not the most desireable area in SF. Many areas in SF are considerably more expensive. Presidio Heights is one of the top neighborhoods, and has a home price index on Zillow of nearly $5MM. You can't even compare new construction because there is none for sale. https://www.redfin.com/neighborhood/2197/CA/San-Francisco/Presidio-Heights-San-Francisco-CA/filter/sort=hi-dollarsqft https://www.redfin.com/neighborhood/2197/CA/San-Francisco/Pr... For the record, doing the "most expensive" or "most desirable" comparison is pointless anyway. The most expensive neighborhood is not representative of the typical home price, or even the typical desirable home price.

dpark 10y ago

> For instance, like for like (new construction in the most desirable neighborhoods), Boston housing is just as expensive as SF No it's not. It's not even close. The median home in Boston is less than $500k. That's a gut/teardown in SF, where the median is $1.1MM. If you pick brand new construction in the most desirable neighborhoods in Boston, I'm sure you could easily spend north of a million. If you pick comparable new construction in the most desirable neighborhoods in SF, I imagine you're looking at multiple millions. http://www.zillow.com/boston-ma/home-values/ http://www.zillow.com/boston-ma/home-values/ http://www.zillow.com/sanfrancisco-ca/home-values/ http://www.zillow.com/sanfrancisco-ca/home-values/ > in general your money goes further in SF. In what way?

seattle_spring 10y ago
Every time SF housing prices come up, someone comes out of the woodwork to say how (Boston | Seattle | Austin) is just as expensive or even worse. They then compare some 1500 sq ft penthouse in the nicest, newest tower in their city to some slightly less expensive 19th century shithole of the same price in SF and say, "LOOK! Look! It's more expensive in my city! And MILK is 50% more here too, so it's way more expensive to live here obviously." Every. Time.
- dpark 10y ago
  I did enjoy the fact that "like for like" somehow explicitly means the best of the best in Boston.
  - djb_hackernews 10y ago
    FWIW I was comparing like for like in both cities. I compared Back Bay new construction to SoMA new construction. Fact is, your money does go further in SF. It isn't intuitive because most of the housing stock in Boston is old, cramped, or needs significant repair...or all 3. But that doesn't come across when you compare aggregate sqft prices, it just looks like Boston is cheaper.
    - dpark 10y ago
      > FWIW I was comparing like for like in both cities. I compared Back Bay new construction to SoMA new construction. Back Bay is the most expensive neighborhood in Boston. If you want to compare to SF, then SoMA is probably not the appropriate neighborhood. There are several neighborhoods in SF that cost multiples of Back Bay. * Back Bay: $863,200 * Pacific Heights: $1,877,500 * Noe Valley: $1,652,100 * Russian Hill: $1,593,600 If you actually want to compare "like for like", let's look at a really expensive SF neighborhood. * Presidio Heights: $4,911,300 > Fact is, your money does go further in SF. It isn't intuitive because most of the housing stock in Boston is old, cramped, or needs significant repair...or all 3. But that doesn't come across when you compare aggregate sqft prices, it just looks like Boston is cheaper. Isn't most of the housing in every major city old, cramped, and in need of repair? SF has plenty of old, cramped housing that costs a million dollars. You can't cherry-pick the absolute top-end of the Boston market and compare it to an average neighborhood in SF. With that logic, Seattle is more expensive than SF, too. Windermere price index is $1,239,600 vs $945,000 in SoMA. -- * http://www.zillow.com/back-bay-boston-ma/home-values/ http://www.zillow.com/back-bay-boston-ma/home-values/ * http://www.zillow.com/pacific-heights-san-francisco-ca/home-values/ http://www.zillow.com/pacific-heights-san-francisco-ca/home-... * http://www.zillow.com/noe-valley-san-francisco-ca/home-values/ http://www.zillow.com/noe-valley-san-francisco-ca/home-value... * http://www.zillow.com/russian-hill-san-francisco-ca/home-values/ http://www.zillow.com/russian-hill-san-francisco-ca/home-val... * http://www.zillow.com/presidio-heights-san-francisco-ca/home-values/ http://www.zillow.com/presidio-heights-san-francisco-ca/home... * http://www.zillow.com/windermere-seattle-wa/home-values/ http://www.zillow.com/windermere-seattle-wa/home-values/ * http://www.zillow.com/south-of-market-san-francisco-ca/home-values/ http://www.zillow.com/south-of-market-san-francisco-ca/home-...
djb_hackernews 10y ago
Notice that I said like for like. If you compare new construction in the most desirable neighborhoods in both cities[0][1] SF comes out cheaper and/or your money goes further. ie, SF might be slightly more expensive but your building has 24/7 security, roof top pool, common outdoor space, etc. EDIT: A further comparison of the age of the housing stock, looking at properties currently listed within both city limits, ~33% of them in Boston were built before 1900, 8% of them in SF were built before 1900. To me this means overall the housing stock is more modern in SF which likely benefits the homeowner in energy costs, modern systems, safety, total square footage, etc. [0] https://www.redfin.com/neighborhood/293571/MA/Boston/Back-Bay/filter/sort=hi-dollarsqft,min-year-built=2005 https://www.redfin.com/neighborhood/293571/MA/Boston/Back-Ba... [1] https://www.redfin.com/neighborhood/11212/CA/San-Francisco/SoMa/filter/sort=hi-dollarsqft,min-year-built=2005 https://www.redfin.com/neighborhood/11212/CA/San-Francisco/S...
- dpark 10y ago
  SoMA is not the most desireable area in SF. Many areas in SF are considerably more expensive. Presidio Heights is one of the top neighborhoods, and has a home price index on Zillow of nearly $5MM. You can't even compare new construction because there is none for sale. https://www.redfin.com/neighborhood/2197/CA/San-Francisco/Presidio-Heights-San-Francisco-CA/filter/sort=hi-dollarsqft https://www.redfin.com/neighborhood/2197/CA/San-Francisco/Pr... For the record, doing the "most expensive" or "most desirable" comparison is pointless anyway. The most expensive neighborhood is not representative of the typical home price, or even the typical desirable home price.