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Why does this make particularly more sense for trucks than cars? Just because trucks don't need to have a down time for sleeping like a car with a single owner

Why does this make particularly more sense for trucks than cars? Just because trucks don't need to have a down time for sleeping like a car with a single owner does?

chiph 10y ago
It's a perception win, as their diesels produce a lot of soot (not so much anymore, with the DPF and urea injection, but .. perception). They need a lot of torque to accelerate (err, "gain momentum") away from lights, and the instant torque of an electric motor is especially well suited for this. The downside is that the heavy battery pack takes away cargo carrying capacity. Trucks are weight-limited to reduce damage to roads.
- JoelBennett 10y ago
  Regulations on larger trucks still aren't nearly as strict as they are for smaller (pickup) trucks. I'd be surprised if many of the big trucks are running DPF or urea injection. Although maybe that's just because I see more of the older ones around.
  - chiph 10y ago
    The OTR (over the road) trucks are built on multi-million mile chassis, so they get driven until they can't be repaired any more. I wouldn't doubt that some owner-operators are bypassing the emissions systems, even though those trucks tend to get better mileage. A few years ago, 6 mpg was considered good. Now 8.5 mpg is not uncommon.
    - Kluny 10y ago
      > A few years ago, 6 mpg was considered good. Now 8.5 mpg is not uncommon. Are you serious? That's horrific...
      - keenerd 10y ago
        If you think that is bad, you should reconsider your car. A big truck is 3x more efficient than a Prius. Take a look at the numbers and analysis presented by "Why are cars unable to match the efficiency of the 18 wheeler?" http://arstechnica.com/civis/viewtopic.php?t=41085 http://arstechnica.com/civis/viewtopic.php?t=41085
      - chiph 10y ago
        On a pounds per mpg basis, the truck is moving 9400 pounds (8.5mpg truck, 80,000 pounds), while a Prius is moving about 67 pounds (60 mpg, 4,000 pounds). If you look at the weight of cargo being moved, the ratios are even more in the truck's favor because it can carry 40,000 pounds, or about half it's weight (the Prius can't even come close).
        sverige 10y ago
        Most trucks can haul about 48,000 - 50,000 pounds, since typical weight for truck and trailer is about 30,000 - 32,000 pounds. Some lightweight OTR trucks weigh less, and day cabs even less than that. Definitely more fuel efficient than any car. Trains win the grand prize, but they can only run where the rails are obviously.
  - sverige 10y ago
    All new trucks use DEF and burn low-sulfur diesel since California requires it. That has been the case for at least 10 years, if not more. The only trucks on the road that do not are older trucks and some "gliders" (new chassis and body with an overhauled engine that is older and doesn't have to meet the regulations). The vast majority of big trucks run cleaner than cars or pickups. By the way, trucking is one of the most highly regulated industries.
jonknee 10y ago
Trucks often have associated warehouses or depots that could support centralized battery charging facilities. For cars you are lucky if the owner has a garage that can fit a car.
- jessriedel 10y ago
  You just argued that it would make more sense for cars to have replaceable batteries than trucks (which I agree with, and contrary to castratikron): we can count on trucks to have specialized charging facilities, but there are car owners who can only park on city streets or other places, who would be well-served by having battery-swap stations (a la gas stations) rather than home-charging.
  - rhino369 10y ago
    Battery swapping with your self is a lot easier. You don't have to account for wear and tear other than just replacing batteries when they bust. But if I go to a "battery swap" location I'm giving up my new battery and might get a dud. You can set up a business model that solves the problem. For example, use the propane tank model, where you put a deposit down to get the first one, and the customer is always entitled to a swap. And the company always owns the tanks/batteries. But that's an expensive business. These battery packs are big assets currently. It's easier to just have two or three owned by a truck company who can swap themselves.
masklinn 10y ago
> Just because trucks don't need to have a down time for sleeping like a car with a single owner does? That, and trucks generally go back to depots regularly to load/unload/etc… Even more so if you're swapping tractors around cities, you'd have swapping depots for that purpose.
ori_b 10y ago
Because it's far easier to keep all batteries in one location and have short haul trucks do a round trip, dropping off a flat battery in exchange for a fresh one. Very little logistics involved in keeping a bunch of stations stocked.

Why does this make particularly more sense for trucks than cars? Just because trucks don't need to have a down time for sleeping like a car with a single owner does?

chiph 10y ago

It's a perception win, as their diesels produce a lot of soot (not so much anymore, with the DPF and urea injection, but .. perception). They need a lot of torque to accelerate (err, "gain momentum") away from lights, and the instant torque of an electric motor is especially well suited for this. The downside is that the heavy battery pack takes away cargo carrying capacity. Trucks are weight-limited to reduce damage to roads.

JoelBennett 10y ago
Regulations on larger trucks still aren't nearly as strict as they are for smaller (pickup) trucks. I'd be surprised if many of the big trucks are running DPF or urea injection. Although maybe that's just because I see more of the older ones around.
- chiph 10y ago
  The OTR (over the road) trucks are built on multi-million mile chassis, so they get driven until they can't be repaired any more. I wouldn't doubt that some owner-operators are bypassing the emissions systems, even though those trucks tend to get better mileage. A few years ago, 6 mpg was considered good. Now 8.5 mpg is not uncommon.
  - Kluny 10y ago
    > A few years ago, 6 mpg was considered good. Now 8.5 mpg is not uncommon. Are you serious? That's horrific...
    - keenerd 10y ago
      If you think that is bad, you should reconsider your car. A big truck is 3x more efficient than a Prius. Take a look at the numbers and analysis presented by "Why are cars unable to match the efficiency of the 18 wheeler?" http://arstechnica.com/civis/viewtopic.php?t=41085 http://arstechnica.com/civis/viewtopic.php?t=41085
    - chiph 10y ago
      On a pounds per mpg basis, the truck is moving 9400 pounds (8.5mpg truck, 80,000 pounds), while a Prius is moving about 67 pounds (60 mpg, 4,000 pounds). If you look at the weight of cargo being moved, the ratios are even more in the truck's favor because it can carry 40,000 pounds, or about half it's weight (the Prius can't even come close).
      - sverige 10y ago
        Most trucks can haul about 48,000 - 50,000 pounds, since typical weight for truck and trailer is about 30,000 - 32,000 pounds. Some lightweight OTR trucks weigh less, and day cabs even less than that. Definitely more fuel efficient than any car. Trains win the grand prize, but they can only run where the rails are obviously.
- sverige 10y ago
  All new trucks use DEF and burn low-sulfur diesel since California requires it. That has been the case for at least 10 years, if not more. The only trucks on the road that do not are older trucks and some "gliders" (new chassis and body with an overhauled engine that is older and doesn't have to meet the regulations). The vast majority of big trucks run cleaner than cars or pickups. By the way, trucking is one of the most highly regulated industries.

jonknee 10y ago

Trucks often have associated warehouses or depots that could support centralized battery charging facilities. For cars you are lucky if the owner has a garage that can fit a car.

jessriedel 10y ago
You just argued that it would make more sense for cars to have replaceable batteries than trucks (which I agree with, and contrary to castratikron): we can count on trucks to have specialized charging facilities, but there are car owners who can only park on city streets or other places, who would be well-served by having battery-swap stations (a la gas stations) rather than home-charging.
- rhino369 10y ago
  Battery swapping with your self is a lot easier. You don't have to account for wear and tear other than just replacing batteries when they bust. But if I go to a "battery swap" location I'm giving up my new battery and might get a dud. You can set up a business model that solves the problem. For example, use the propane tank model, where you put a deposit down to get the first one, and the customer is always entitled to a swap. And the company always owns the tanks/batteries. But that's an expensive business. These battery packs are big assets currently. It's easier to just have two or three owned by a truck company who can swap themselves.

masklinn 10y ago

> Just because trucks don't need to have a down time for sleeping like a car with a single owner does? That, and trucks generally go back to depots regularly to load/unload/etc… Even more so if you're swapping tractors around cities, you'd have swapping depots for that purpose.

ori_b 10y ago

Because it's far easier to keep all batteries in one location and have short haul trucks do a round trip, dropping off a flat battery in exchange for a fresh one. Very little logistics involved in keeping a bunch of stations stocked.