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This is where it'd make sense for the battery to be removable. A truck company could keep a bunch of charged batteries at their warehouse and swap batteries out

This is where it'd make sense for the battery to be removable. A truck company could keep a bunch of charged batteries at their warehouse and swap batteries out every time a truck comes back for a new delivery.

giarc 10y ago
If manufacturers were smart, they would make them easily moveable by forklift.
- patrickk 10y ago
  Battery powered forklifts swapping batteries on trucks. It's a nice image of the future. Perhaps there's even infrastructure commonalities to reduce costs.
- pc86 10y ago
  I think it's much more likely that a) it's not that easy; and/or b) the economic incentive just isn't there rather than people whose livelihood depends on it not being smart enough to figure out that forklifts exist.
- HCIdivision17 10y ago
  When I worked in plants, I remember gangs of battery charging stations that had a crane to swap batteries out on the forklifts. I can't imagine distribution centers not installing something like that for these trucks (eventually). Even if swapping isn't a feature in all electric trucks to start, there's almost certainly going to be some sort of conversion kit to make it possible in the future.
jessriedel 10y ago
Why does this make particularly more sense for trucks than cars? Just because trucks don't need to have a down time for sleeping like a car with a single owner does?
- chiph 10y ago
  It's a perception win, as their diesels produce a lot of soot (not so much anymore, with the DPF and urea injection, but .. perception). They need a lot of torque to accelerate (err, "gain momentum") away from lights, and the instant torque of an electric motor is especially well suited for this. The downside is that the heavy battery pack takes away cargo carrying capacity. Trucks are weight-limited to reduce damage to roads.
  - JoelBennett 10y ago
    Regulations on larger trucks still aren't nearly as strict as they are for smaller (pickup) trucks. I'd be surprised if many of the big trucks are running DPF or urea injection. Although maybe that's just because I see more of the older ones around.
    - chiph 10y ago
      The OTR (over the road) trucks are built on multi-million mile chassis, so they get driven until they can't be repaired any more. I wouldn't doubt that some owner-operators are bypassing the emissions systems, even though those trucks tend to get better mileage. A few years ago, 6 mpg was considered good. Now 8.5 mpg is not uncommon.
      - Kluny 10y ago
        > A few years ago, 6 mpg was considered good. Now 8.5 mpg is not uncommon. Are you serious? That's horrific...
        keenerd 10y ago
        If you think that is bad, you should reconsider your car. A big truck is 3x more efficient than a Prius. Take a look at the numbers and analysis presented by "Why are cars unable to match the efficiency of the 18 wheeler?" http://arstechnica.com/civis/viewtopic.php?t=41085 http://arstechnica.com/civis/viewtopic.php?t=41085
maxerickson 10y ago
For some local fleet jobs you can probably put batteries in the trailers (if the cargo is consistently not super heavy).
- masklinn 10y ago
  That requires special trailers and tractors rather than just electrical tractors able to handle any standard trailer. It also requires much heavier and "non-standard" coupling between tractor and trailer since the trailer now needs to power the tractor rather than the reverse (and needs send significantly more power over the link)
  - maxerickson 10y ago
    And? Note that I didn't propose it as the likely universal future, just as a potential way to do battery swaps.
    - masklinn 10y ago
      > And? And that means much larger upfront costs for debatable benefits.
  - gens 10y ago
    I'm no truck expert but that shouldn't be that big of a problem. There are already power cables between trucks and trailers [1]. Thing is to just make a thicker one. Weight is also no problem as 500kg of batteries is nothing compared to 20 tones of a trailer. 1. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ISO_standards_for_trailer_connectors https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ISO_standards_for_trailer_conn...
    - masklinn 10y ago
      > There are already power cables between trucks and trailers [1]. There are power cables but they're used to power the trailer from the tractor rather than the other way around, they're mostly controlling trailer devices (lamps, brakes, etc…) and the general power ones are small potatoes to power cooling (refrigerated trailers) or lifts, not full-blown truck engines. > Thing is to just make a thicker one. Well yeah as I noted with that "solution" you need much heavier coupling than the standard ones (and reversed power), so you get to throw all existing tractors and trailers in the trash, rather than just replacing the tractors and keeping all existing trailers.

giarc 10y ago

If manufacturers were smart, they would make them easily moveable by forklift.

patrickk 10y ago
Battery powered forklifts swapping batteries on trucks. It's a nice image of the future. Perhaps there's even infrastructure commonalities to reduce costs.
pc86 10y ago
I think it's much more likely that a) it's not that easy; and/or b) the economic incentive just isn't there rather than people whose livelihood depends on it not being smart enough to figure out that forklifts exist.
HCIdivision17 10y ago
When I worked in plants, I remember gangs of battery charging stations that had a crane to swap batteries out on the forklifts. I can't imagine distribution centers not installing something like that for these trucks (eventually). Even if swapping isn't a feature in all electric trucks to start, there's almost certainly going to be some sort of conversion kit to make it possible in the future.

jessriedel 10y ago

Why does this make particularly more sense for trucks than cars? Just because trucks don't need to have a down time for sleeping like a car with a single owner does?

chiph 10y ago
It's a perception win, as their diesels produce a lot of soot (not so much anymore, with the DPF and urea injection, but .. perception). They need a lot of torque to accelerate (err, "gain momentum") away from lights, and the instant torque of an electric motor is especially well suited for this. The downside is that the heavy battery pack takes away cargo carrying capacity. Trucks are weight-limited to reduce damage to roads.
- JoelBennett 10y ago
  Regulations on larger trucks still aren't nearly as strict as they are for smaller (pickup) trucks. I'd be surprised if many of the big trucks are running DPF or urea injection. Although maybe that's just because I see more of the older ones around.
  - chiph 10y ago
    The OTR (over the road) trucks are built on multi-million mile chassis, so they get driven until they can't be repaired any more. I wouldn't doubt that some owner-operators are bypassing the emissions systems, even though those trucks tend to get better mileage. A few years ago, 6 mpg was considered good. Now 8.5 mpg is not uncommon.
    - Kluny 10y ago
      > A few years ago, 6 mpg was considered good. Now 8.5 mpg is not uncommon. Are you serious? That's horrific...
      - keenerd 10y ago
        If you think that is bad, you should reconsider your car. A big truck is 3x more efficient than a Prius. Take a look at the numbers and analysis presented by "Why are cars unable to match the efficiency of the 18 wheeler?" http://arstechnica.com/civis/viewtopic.php?t=41085 http://arstechnica.com/civis/viewtopic.php?t=41085

maxerickson 10y ago

For some local fleet jobs you can probably put batteries in the trailers (if the cargo is consistently not super heavy).

masklinn 10y ago
That requires special trailers and tractors rather than just electrical tractors able to handle any standard trailer. It also requires much heavier and "non-standard" coupling between tractor and trailer since the trailer now needs to power the tractor rather than the reverse (and needs send significantly more power over the link)
- maxerickson 10y ago
  And? Note that I didn't propose it as the likely universal future, just as a potential way to do battery swaps.
  - masklinn 10y ago
    > And? And that means much larger upfront costs for debatable benefits.
- gens 10y ago
  I'm no truck expert but that shouldn't be that big of a problem. There are already power cables between trucks and trailers [1]. Thing is to just make a thicker one. Weight is also no problem as 500kg of batteries is nothing compared to 20 tones of a trailer. 1. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ISO_standards_for_trailer_connectors https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ISO_standards_for_trailer_conn...
  - masklinn 10y ago
    > There are already power cables between trucks and trailers [1]. There are power cables but they're used to power the trailer from the tractor rather than the other way around, they're mostly controlling trailer devices (lamps, brakes, etc…) and the general power ones are small potatoes to power cooling (refrigerated trailers) or lifts, not full-blown truck engines. > Thing is to just make a thicker one. Well yeah as I noted with that "solution" you need much heavier coupling than the standard ones (and reversed power), so you get to throw all existing tractors and trailers in the trash, rather than just replacing the tractors and keeping all existing trailers.