6 ms·

Trucks seem to be the perfect candidate for electric propulsion. The high torque of electric motors just make sense for urban acceleration/deceleration. As a pe

Trucks seem to be the perfect candidate for electric propulsion. The high torque of electric motors just make sense for urban acceleration/deceleration. As a pedestrian, one of the things I hate the most is the the dense, black smoke from heavy trucks.

fear91 10y ago
Unfortunately the range is becoming a problem on big electric trucks. The batteries cannot store as much energy per weight unit as the chemical fuel. This can be circumvented by using electric wiring overhead. Sweden is prototyping an electric highway for trucks. It'll make transport cheaper and less damaging to the environment.
- hx87 10y ago
  It's less of a problem in dense urban areas, where distances are short and there are many opportunities for regenerative braking.
- bluedino 10y ago
  >> Unfortunately the range is becoming a problem on big electric trucks. Right, there's only a 126 mile maximum range on that truck. So you'd have to stop and get a new battery every 2 hours, minimum on the interstate.
  - fu9ar 10y ago
    The point of an urban transport truck is to transport goods within dense urban areas so that we don't have to suck down exhaust fumes all damn day. Your objection is absolutely irrelevant. You could have realized that by reading the entire title of the article!
  - mikeash 10y ago
    An "urban transport truck" would do poorly on the interstate? How unexpected!
    - bluedino 10y ago
      I'm just adding to the post I replied to, I realize it is an urban truck
    - deleted 10y ago
      [deleted]
- masklinn 10y ago
  > Unfortunately the range is becoming a problem on big electric trucks. This specific effort is urban deliveries, 120 miles should be way more than enough. > This can be circumvented by using electric wiring overhead. You'd need much denser pantograph networks than any I know of for debatable benefits since the vehicles would still need the ability to go "off-network" (to enter private premises for instance). And for longer ranges, you might as well just use trains.
  - PeterisP 10y ago
    It's not as simple - with current charging speeds, 120 mile charge is not enough even if you're doing 10 mile deliveries; you need to figure out some solution that can keep that truck running for e.g. a 12 hour shift with limited downtime. A gas tank with barely enough gas for 120 miles would work, but a battery for 120 miles can work only if you can quickly, easily and safely swap the batteries in your depot.
    - umeshunni 10y ago
      A fast (level 3) charger can recharge a 120 mile truck battery in 1-2hrs today and potentially less than an hour in the future. A Tesla Model X (5000lbs/2500kg) pulling a 5000lbs trailer uses about 700Wh/mi. If you assume 1kWh/mi for a small delivery truck, you'll need a 120KWh battery. ChaDeMo chargers are ~62.5KW, Tesla Superchargers are ~135KW and future level 3 chargers could go up to 300KW.
      - thinkcontext 10y ago
        > 1-2hrs So 12.5-25% of an 8hr shift. I would guess that would be unacceptably long for a large number of transport operators.
        deleted 10y ago
        [deleted]
        umeshunni 10y ago
infinotize 10y ago
Agreed, particularly in an urban setting. In NYC the streets are quite literally with small to medium trucks, which are all almost certainly in violation of noise and pollution requirements. A fleet-type electric medium duty truck with swappable batteries would be awesome and I think governments should be bending over backwards to incentivize them.
- Symbiote 10y ago
  Do you mean small vans like this one [1]? That's a significant electric delivery vehicle fleet, though from almost 10 years ago -- I don't know what happened since. [1] http://www.j-sainsbury.co.uk/responsibility/case-studies/archive/first-electric-vans-to-hit-the-road-with-green-shopping/ http://www.j-sainsbury.co.uk/responsibility/case-studies/arc...
  - infinotize 10y ago
    Oh that's cool, I'd never heard of it. I'm surprised there doesn't see much momentum in the area, although maybe there is a good practical reason for it.
  - kuschku 10y ago
    Those are everywhere here nowadays. UPS, DHL, etc also almost exclusively use electric vehicles in and around Hamburg, which is really amazing.
  - jameshart 10y ago
    You reminded me that electric home grocery deliveries have a longer history in the UK than people might think - growing up in the 1980s in the UK daily milk deliveries via an electric milkfloat were absolutely ubiquitous, and had been since the 1940s. The distinctive whining sound of a milk float pulling away, milk bottles chinking, was the definitive sound of a town waking up in the morning - diesel-motored vans chugging around first thing would have been incredibly annoying.
  - ilikeatari 10y ago
    They are still used in the utility fleet space. However, they did not perform that well (range, reliability, high cost etc). It really was a natural fit for a Utility industry because of their access to the cheap electric power.
Shivetya 10y ago
well I would think school buses and even metro transit buses would make better options. School buses because they travel fixed routes, have specific points they will sit awhile (schools/depots/etc) and the fuel price fluctuations clobber systems.
- Symbiote 10y ago
  There are plenty of hybrid buses in Europe, in some cities the entire fleet, though only a few places are using full battery-electric ones. (Example in Gothenburg [1]). Even hybrid buses are a big improvement — the batteries can be used to accelerate away from stops, so you don't get exhaust in your face after alighting. In Eastern Europe there are some trollybus systems, for example in Bratislava [2]. I like this -- no pollution in the city, and lighter vehicles with good acceleration and no rumbling engine. [1] http://www.goteborgelectricity.se/en/node/19505/about-electric-bus http://www.goteborgelectricity.se/en/node/19505/about-electr... [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Public_transport_in_Bratislava#/media/File:DUOBUS_Bratislava.JPG https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Public_transport_in_Bratislava...
  - koenigdavidmj 10y ago
    Trolleybuses exist in the US too in a couple of cities. SF and Seattle both really like them because they have all their torque available from a standstill, unlike ICE buses, so they are great on our absurd hills. Seattle's new ones also have batteries so that they can run off-wire if they need to detour.
post_break 10y ago
Trucks usually need long range which isn't very good with electric since that adds weight. Weight is a huge issue with trucks as well since they have load limits (some countries factor in the truck not just the haul). As trucks burn fuel they also become lighter, the effect isn't as huge as airplanes but it's still there.
- ygra 10y ago
  The effect is pretty much insignificant compared to airplanes or rockets. The fact that the fuel being burned makes the truck (slightly) lighter has a negligible effect on fuel economy.
bsdetector 10y ago
Trucks seem to be the perfect candidate for hybrid engines. Electric motors and batteries for the power needed to accelerate and climb hills, and gasoline for the energy density needed to actually get very far. Trucks only need 200 hp to cruise so a 100 hp engine would extend the battery range a lot. I bet you could even take one of these 100 mile EV trucks, put a Prius engine in there, and make it go all day and double or triple the miles per gallon over a normal truck with 600+ hp engine.

fear91 10y ago

Unfortunately the range is becoming a problem on big electric trucks. The batteries cannot store as much energy per weight unit as the chemical fuel. This can be circumvented by using electric wiring overhead. Sweden is prototyping an electric highway for trucks. It'll make transport cheaper and less damaging to the environment.

hx87 10y ago
It's less of a problem in dense urban areas, where distances are short and there are many opportunities for regenerative braking.
bluedino 10y ago
>> Unfortunately the range is becoming a problem on big electric trucks. Right, there's only a 126 mile maximum range on that truck. So you'd have to stop and get a new battery every 2 hours, minimum on the interstate.
- fu9ar 10y ago
  The point of an urban transport truck is to transport goods within dense urban areas so that we don't have to suck down exhaust fumes all damn day. Your objection is absolutely irrelevant. You could have realized that by reading the entire title of the article!
- mikeash 10y ago
  An "urban transport truck" would do poorly on the interstate? How unexpected!
  - bluedino 10y ago
    I'm just adding to the post I replied to, I realize it is an urban truck
  - deleted 10y ago
    [deleted]
masklinn 10y ago
> Unfortunately the range is becoming a problem on big electric trucks. This specific effort is urban deliveries, 120 miles should be way more than enough. > This can be circumvented by using electric wiring overhead. You'd need much denser pantograph networks than any I know of for debatable benefits since the vehicles would still need the ability to go "off-network" (to enter private premises for instance). And for longer ranges, you might as well just use trains.
- PeterisP 10y ago
  It's not as simple - with current charging speeds, 120 mile charge is not enough even if you're doing 10 mile deliveries; you need to figure out some solution that can keep that truck running for e.g. a 12 hour shift with limited downtime. A gas tank with barely enough gas for 120 miles would work, but a battery for 120 miles can work only if you can quickly, easily and safely swap the batteries in your depot.
  - umeshunni 10y ago
    A fast (level 3) charger can recharge a 120 mile truck battery in 1-2hrs today and potentially less than an hour in the future. A Tesla Model X (5000lbs/2500kg) pulling a 5000lbs trailer uses about 700Wh/mi. If you assume 1kWh/mi for a small delivery truck, you'll need a 120KWh battery. ChaDeMo chargers are ~62.5KW, Tesla Superchargers are ~135KW and future level 3 chargers could go up to 300KW.
    - thinkcontext 10y ago
      > 1-2hrs So 12.5-25% of an 8hr shift. I would guess that would be unacceptably long for a large number of transport operators.
      - deleted 10y ago
        [deleted]
      - umeshunni 10y ago

infinotize 10y ago

Agreed, particularly in an urban setting. In NYC the streets are quite literally with small to medium trucks, which are all almost certainly in violation of noise and pollution requirements. A fleet-type electric medium duty truck with swappable batteries would be awesome and I think governments should be bending over backwards to incentivize them.

Symbiote 10y ago
Do you mean small vans like this one [1]? That's a significant electric delivery vehicle fleet, though from almost 10 years ago -- I don't know what happened since. [1] http://www.j-sainsbury.co.uk/responsibility/case-studies/archive/first-electric-vans-to-hit-the-road-with-green-shopping/ http://www.j-sainsbury.co.uk/responsibility/case-studies/arc...
- infinotize 10y ago
  Oh that's cool, I'd never heard of it. I'm surprised there doesn't see much momentum in the area, although maybe there is a good practical reason for it.
- kuschku 10y ago
  Those are everywhere here nowadays. UPS, DHL, etc also almost exclusively use electric vehicles in and around Hamburg, which is really amazing.
- jameshart 10y ago
  You reminded me that electric home grocery deliveries have a longer history in the UK than people might think - growing up in the 1980s in the UK daily milk deliveries via an electric milkfloat were absolutely ubiquitous, and had been since the 1940s. The distinctive whining sound of a milk float pulling away, milk bottles chinking, was the definitive sound of a town waking up in the morning - diesel-motored vans chugging around first thing would have been incredibly annoying.
- ilikeatari 10y ago
  They are still used in the utility fleet space. However, they did not perform that well (range, reliability, high cost etc). It really was a natural fit for a Utility industry because of their access to the cheap electric power.

Shivetya 10y ago

well I would think school buses and even metro transit buses would make better options. School buses because they travel fixed routes, have specific points they will sit awhile (schools/depots/etc) and the fuel price fluctuations clobber systems.

Symbiote 10y ago
There are plenty of hybrid buses in Europe, in some cities the entire fleet, though only a few places are using full battery-electric ones. (Example in Gothenburg [1]). Even hybrid buses are a big improvement — the batteries can be used to accelerate away from stops, so you don't get exhaust in your face after alighting. In Eastern Europe there are some trollybus systems, for example in Bratislava [2]. I like this -- no pollution in the city, and lighter vehicles with good acceleration and no rumbling engine. [1] http://www.goteborgelectricity.se/en/node/19505/about-electric-bus http://www.goteborgelectricity.se/en/node/19505/about-electr... [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Public_transport_in_Bratislava#/media/File:DUOBUS_Bratislava.JPG https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Public_transport_in_Bratislava...
- koenigdavidmj 10y ago
  Trolleybuses exist in the US too in a couple of cities. SF and Seattle both really like them because they have all their torque available from a standstill, unlike ICE buses, so they are great on our absurd hills. Seattle's new ones also have batteries so that they can run off-wire if they need to detour.

post_break 10y ago

Trucks usually need long range which isn't very good with electric since that adds weight. Weight is a huge issue with trucks as well since they have load limits (some countries factor in the truck not just the haul). As trucks burn fuel they also become lighter, the effect isn't as huge as airplanes but it's still there.

ygra 10y ago
The effect is pretty much insignificant compared to airplanes or rockets. The fact that the fuel being burned makes the truck (slightly) lighter has a negligible effect on fuel economy.

bsdetector 10y ago

Trucks seem to be the perfect candidate for hybrid engines. Electric motors and batteries for the power needed to accelerate and climb hills, and gasoline for the energy density needed to actually get very far. Trucks only need 200 hp to cruise so a 100 hp engine would extend the battery range a lot. I bet you could even take one of these 100 mile EV trucks, put a Prius engine in there, and make it go all day and double or triple the miles per gallon over a normal truck with 600+ hp engine.