4 ms·

Very cool. Salaries seem on the low-end of the industry standards from what I've seen. $120k for 5 years of experience in the Bay-Area is pretty insulting.

CoachRufus87 10y ago
What would be a more competitive number in the bay area for 5 years of experience?
- megadethz 10y ago
  I can concur with the OP. I recently interviewed at Bay Area companies which included late stage startups and big companies. Have about 5 years of experience. Total liquid compensation was in the range of $200k to $300k annualized.
  - deleted 10y ago
    [deleted]
thecolorblue 10y ago
It looks to me that it incentivizes working outside of SF, or NY. $110k for a developer with 5 years experience in Cleveland is just about right, if not on the higher end.
- vonmoltke 10y ago
  Whaa... I must be doing something wrong, because I'm in Dallas with 14 years of total engineering experience and 8 years of software engineering experience but have yet to break $93k.
  - eachro 10y ago
    Yeah, it's time to ask for a raise or look for a new job that pays you your market rate.
    - yAak 10y ago
      Just want confirm that while eachro's response here may sound flippant, I feel it's actually the plain truth and good advice.
  - geodel 10y ago
    You should definitely ask for raise and explore other opportunities etc but bear in mind that stories and discussions about salaries on HN is mostly about high end of S/w industry. For lot of us salaries are quite a bit lower than what is discussed here. Also cracking interviews and showing above ordinary skills to get job at top end firms is beyond capabilities of most of generic software developers.
    - vonmoltke 10y ago
      See, that has been by problem with trying to figure out my true worth. The StackOverflow calculator seems about right to me, but that is a totally unfounded gut feeling. $110k after five years in Cleveland seems like a high-end outlier, but I don't really know. Obviously $250k total comp at Google is a major outlier (for the industry, not necessarily for Google).
grobaru 10y ago
I think SF is a bubble and very unhealthy to the whole IT industry. It basically raises the costs for everyone. It makes no sense to hire a person in SF for much more (and he will not really benefit from it) just because you compete with multi billions dollar businesses that can cut costs somewhere else. At some point people do not want to change the world with next Instagram. They just want to live nicely.
- phamilton 10y ago
  The counter point is that companies are profitable despite high salaries. That suggests an engineers contributions exceed even the bloated salary and therefore they are undercompensated.
  - antisthenes 10y ago
    That's literally true of every profitable company then. Seems like great advocacy for communism if I've ever seen one.
  - eldavido 10y ago
    I know a few guys making $300K+ at Apple. I think a lot of people paid that much are reaping the benefits of strategic and tactical decisions made over decades -- they just happen to be there when it's all paying off and things are going well. Not sure what to make of this other than that if, as a developer, you want to be paid well, go to a company that's "winning" and has mountains of cash. Shocker, I know. (Though, as someone who's worked at a few places early, it does irritate me more than a little that these people take so little risk and yet are so highly compensated, relative to the guys who were there at the beginning getting things set up from scratch. Being an early employee at a startup is really such a shit deal - you take most of the risk, get a fraction of the equity of a founder, work hard, and don't get paid nearly as much as the people who come in 10-20 years after the strong groundwork has been laid)
NKCSS 10y ago
Location, location, location; I live in .nl and with about €55k, I'm at the upper end of the job market here (14 years experience).
- 8draco8 10y ago
  You are right but you have to also consider US working hours. Apparently it's not unusual to work 60 hours a week while here in Europe we have ~40 hours working weeks. If I have to choose I would definately stay on my UK salary that is about half what this calculator is showing for my experience and keep 40hr working week.
  - rkangel 10y ago
    Don't forget having more than 2 weeks of holiday a year. I could cope with 50-60 hours a week. I could not cope with only one proper holiday a year.
  - dimino 10y ago
    > Apparently it's not unusual to work 60 hours a week That's unusual.
  - walshemj 10y ago
    I used to work with a CTO who had worked in the Valley and in the UK and he said he got no more work out of people in the US than the UK. And bear in mind in the UK this was British Telecom with civil service type holidays and perks - working there did remind me of the Laundry Files :-)
- vmarsy 10y ago
  Unfortunately comparing European and US salaries is comparing apples to oranges. Not only there's vacation as other people mention, but most importantly and often ignored : tax rates and retirement. In those 55k, you also probably have a bigger tax bill, so it would be more fair to compare money that ends up in your pocket. Retirement: you probably have a national system, with a formula that tells: if you worked X years at salary Y, your retirement income will be Z. You might also have extra retirement plans if you want to save more. In the US, retirement pensions is not a thing (except maybe public servants etc?), So you're responsible of saving by yourself. The employer will sometime help (like for every dollar you put in your retirement plan, they'd match 50 cents, up to ~20k per year), and that money you put in the retirement plan is tax free, but the point is that it's money you theoritically should not access until retirement. With those 2 factors, the money you actually get to use is different, and then the cost of life is different: raising kids in the US until college, would be a different price than a kid in the Netherlands until the end of university.

CoachRufus87 10y ago

What would be a more competitive number in the bay area for 5 years of experience?

megadethz 10y ago
I can concur with the OP. I recently interviewed at Bay Area companies which included late stage startups and big companies. Have about 5 years of experience. Total liquid compensation was in the range of $200k to $300k annualized.
- deleted 10y ago
  [deleted]

thecolorblue 10y ago

It looks to me that it incentivizes working outside of SF, or NY. $110k for a developer with 5 years experience in Cleveland is just about right, if not on the higher end.

vonmoltke 10y ago
Whaa... I must be doing something wrong, because I'm in Dallas with 14 years of total engineering experience and 8 years of software engineering experience but have yet to break $93k.
- eachro 10y ago
  Yeah, it's time to ask for a raise or look for a new job that pays you your market rate.
  - yAak 10y ago
    Just want confirm that while eachro's response here may sound flippant, I feel it's actually the plain truth and good advice.
- geodel 10y ago
  You should definitely ask for raise and explore other opportunities etc but bear in mind that stories and discussions about salaries on HN is mostly about high end of S/w industry. For lot of us salaries are quite a bit lower than what is discussed here. Also cracking interviews and showing above ordinary skills to get job at top end firms is beyond capabilities of most of generic software developers.
  - vonmoltke 10y ago
    See, that has been by problem with trying to figure out my true worth. The StackOverflow calculator seems about right to me, but that is a totally unfounded gut feeling. $110k after five years in Cleveland seems like a high-end outlier, but I don't really know. Obviously $250k total comp at Google is a major outlier (for the industry, not necessarily for Google).

grobaru 10y ago

I think SF is a bubble and very unhealthy to the whole IT industry. It basically raises the costs for everyone. It makes no sense to hire a person in SF for much more (and he will not really benefit from it) just because you compete with multi billions dollar businesses that can cut costs somewhere else. At some point people do not want to change the world with next Instagram. They just want to live nicely.

phamilton 10y ago
The counter point is that companies are profitable despite high salaries. That suggests an engineers contributions exceed even the bloated salary and therefore they are undercompensated.
- antisthenes 10y ago
  That's literally true of every profitable company then. Seems like great advocacy for communism if I've ever seen one.
- eldavido 10y ago
  I know a few guys making $300K+ at Apple. I think a lot of people paid that much are reaping the benefits of strategic and tactical decisions made over decades -- they just happen to be there when it's all paying off and things are going well. Not sure what to make of this other than that if, as a developer, you want to be paid well, go to a company that's "winning" and has mountains of cash. Shocker, I know. (Though, as someone who's worked at a few places early, it does irritate me more than a little that these people take so little risk and yet are so highly compensated, relative to the guys who were there at the beginning getting things set up from scratch. Being an early employee at a startup is really such a shit deal - you take most of the risk, get a fraction of the equity of a founder, work hard, and don't get paid nearly as much as the people who come in 10-20 years after the strong groundwork has been laid)

NKCSS 10y ago

Location, location, location; I live in .nl and with about €55k, I'm at the upper end of the job market here (14 years experience).

8draco8 10y ago
You are right but you have to also consider US working hours. Apparently it's not unusual to work 60 hours a week while here in Europe we have ~40 hours working weeks. If I have to choose I would definately stay on my UK salary that is about half what this calculator is showing for my experience and keep 40hr working week.
- rkangel 10y ago
  Don't forget having more than 2 weeks of holiday a year. I could cope with 50-60 hours a week. I could not cope with only one proper holiday a year.
- dimino 10y ago
  > Apparently it's not unusual to work 60 hours a week That's unusual.
- walshemj 10y ago
  I used to work with a CTO who had worked in the Valley and in the UK and he said he got no more work out of people in the US than the UK. And bear in mind in the UK this was British Telecom with civil service type holidays and perks - working there did remind me of the Laundry Files :-)
vmarsy 10y ago
Unfortunately comparing European and US salaries is comparing apples to oranges. Not only there's vacation as other people mention, but most importantly and often ignored : tax rates and retirement. In those 55k, you also probably have a bigger tax bill, so it would be more fair to compare money that ends up in your pocket. Retirement: you probably have a national system, with a formula that tells: if you worked X years at salary Y, your retirement income will be Z. You might also have extra retirement plans if you want to save more. In the US, retirement pensions is not a thing (except maybe public servants etc?), So you're responsible of saving by yourself. The employer will sometime help (like for every dollar you put in your retirement plan, they'd match 50 cents, up to ~20k per year), and that money you put in the retirement plan is tax free, but the point is that it's money you theoritically should not access until retirement. With those 2 factors, the money you actually get to use is different, and then the cost of life is different: raising kids in the US until college, would be a different price than a kid in the Netherlands until the end of university.