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The Bolt is probably the closest competitor to what Tesla is doing right now for EVs. They have the range, but they still haven't figured out styling or perform

by tcoppi 10y ago

The Bolt is probably the closest competitor to what Tesla is doing right now for EVs. They have the range, but they still haven't figured out styling or performance, nor is the charging infrastructure as robust yet.

forgetsusername 10y ago
>The Bolt is probably the closest competitor to what Tesla is doing right now for EVs. The Model S is 2x the price (and 10x the car). I don't think they are competition. Or do you mean the Model 3? As of right now it's nothing but a prototype, so I'm not sure that's competition either. Theoretically it will be $30k with 200mile range, but I'm skeptical.
- tcoppi 10y ago
  I meant the Model 3. Theoretically it will be $35k for a base model with 200 mile range, and the Bolt is also not much less theoretical than the Model 3 at this point. There are lots of reasons to be skeptical about the time frame of availability and hitting production numbers of the Model 3, but Tesla has been pretty good about hitting the raw performance and price numbers they announce.
protomyth 10y ago
Doesn't the Bolt use a fairly standard charging cable? I see those connectors in parking garages and grocery store parking lots.
- tcoppi 10y ago
  There are adapters for Teslas to use basically every standardized(or otherwise) EV charging connector. No other brand has access to the long-range and fast-charging supercharger network however, which is a rather large part of the value proposition of owning a Tesla for many people, as it mostly removes the need to rent or own a vehicle for longer trips.
  - gozur88 10y ago
    But the supercharger network is woefully inadequate for the number of Model 3 vehicles they intend to produce. Either Tesla is going to have to put a whole lot of money into its supercharger network (more than they've announced, certainly), or they'll have to restrict it to Model S owners.
    - greglindahl 10y ago
      I recall (at the M3 event) that Elon said what they plan to build (2X current stalls) by the time Model 3 is released. Of course that's inadequate for future demand; it seems that they're scaling the network linearly with the number of cars sold which have access to the network.
- NickM 10y ago
  Unfortunately, most of the public charging stations out there are pretty pointless due to their slow charging speed. Without faster charging, you can't do long-distance travel (nobody wants to stop for 4-8 hours in the middle of a road trip to recharge), so the only value they offer is for longer charging sessions while the driver is already in the area for work/shopping/etc. However, even then, you can't really rely on their availability, since it's always possible someone will already be there tying up the station for an 8-hour stretch...so they really aren't terribly useful or convenient for the vast majority of EV owners. I would argue that the only charging network out there that really makes sense is Tesla's Supercharger network: it actually charges fast enough to make road trips practical, is generally quite reliable, and typically includes at least 6-8 stalls per station to avoid congestion during peak travel times. This gives Tesla a huge competitive advantage over other EV manufacturers, and I think it'll be a long time before anyone catches up to them in this regard.
  - tcoppi 10y ago
    A slower charging network could be useful for putting a charging station at every parking space at say workplaces, where your car will be left for an extended time Slower chargers are presumably cheaper to build and run, so they might make more sense there. But otherwise completely agreed that superchargers are basically the only type of charger that makes sense for 99% of the rest of use cases that a gas station would normally take care of.
    - NickM 10y ago
      Yeah if there were parking garages or lots where every parking space had a charging port, that would be awesome, and could actually be part of a practical solution in the long term. Unfortunately most garages I've seen have somewhere from zero to two spots in the entire garage :(
      - greglindahl 10y ago
        Facebook HQ has around 150 L2 chargers. It's just a matter of time.
marvin 10y ago
The Bolt will also not be able to ship in nearly the volumes of Tesla Model 3.
- greglindahl 10y ago
  Wikipedia has 2 sources that report that the plan is 25k-30k cars per year (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chevrolet_Bolt https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chevrolet_Bolt). Now that Model 3 received so many reservations, I'd guess that GM is planning on raising that number.
  - marvin 10y ago
    That's a good thing, but just like Tesla, they have to build lots of battery factories to do it. Or their suppliers have to. This process is underway, but unless there are massive projects happening right now that I'm not aware of, their production will be lagging Tesla's by a wide margin.

by tcoppi 10y ago

forgetsusername 10y ago

>The Bolt is probably the closest competitor to what Tesla is doing right now for EVs. The Model S is 2x the price (and 10x the car). I don't think they are competition. Or do you mean the Model 3? As of right now it's nothing but a prototype, so I'm not sure that's competition either. Theoretically it will be $30k with 200mile range, but I'm skeptical.

tcoppi 10y ago
I meant the Model 3. Theoretically it will be $35k for a base model with 200 mile range, and the Bolt is also not much less theoretical than the Model 3 at this point. There are lots of reasons to be skeptical about the time frame of availability and hitting production numbers of the Model 3, but Tesla has been pretty good about hitting the raw performance and price numbers they announce.

protomyth 10y ago

Doesn't the Bolt use a fairly standard charging cable? I see those connectors in parking garages and grocery store parking lots.

tcoppi 10y ago
There are adapters for Teslas to use basically every standardized(or otherwise) EV charging connector. No other brand has access to the long-range and fast-charging supercharger network however, which is a rather large part of the value proposition of owning a Tesla for many people, as it mostly removes the need to rent or own a vehicle for longer trips.
- gozur88 10y ago
  But the supercharger network is woefully inadequate for the number of Model 3 vehicles they intend to produce. Either Tesla is going to have to put a whole lot of money into its supercharger network (more than they've announced, certainly), or they'll have to restrict it to Model S owners.
  - greglindahl 10y ago
    I recall (at the M3 event) that Elon said what they plan to build (2X current stalls) by the time Model 3 is released. Of course that's inadequate for future demand; it seems that they're scaling the network linearly with the number of cars sold which have access to the network.
NickM 10y ago
Unfortunately, most of the public charging stations out there are pretty pointless due to their slow charging speed. Without faster charging, you can't do long-distance travel (nobody wants to stop for 4-8 hours in the middle of a road trip to recharge), so the only value they offer is for longer charging sessions while the driver is already in the area for work/shopping/etc. However, even then, you can't really rely on their availability, since it's always possible someone will already be there tying up the station for an 8-hour stretch...so they really aren't terribly useful or convenient for the vast majority of EV owners. I would argue that the only charging network out there that really makes sense is Tesla's Supercharger network: it actually charges fast enough to make road trips practical, is generally quite reliable, and typically includes at least 6-8 stalls per station to avoid congestion during peak travel times. This gives Tesla a huge competitive advantage over other EV manufacturers, and I think it'll be a long time before anyone catches up to them in this regard.
- tcoppi 10y ago
  A slower charging network could be useful for putting a charging station at every parking space at say workplaces, where your car will be left for an extended time Slower chargers are presumably cheaper to build and run, so they might make more sense there. But otherwise completely agreed that superchargers are basically the only type of charger that makes sense for 99% of the rest of use cases that a gas station would normally take care of.
  - NickM 10y ago
    Yeah if there were parking garages or lots where every parking space had a charging port, that would be awesome, and could actually be part of a practical solution in the long term. Unfortunately most garages I've seen have somewhere from zero to two spots in the entire garage :(
    - greglindahl 10y ago
      Facebook HQ has around 150 L2 chargers. It's just a matter of time.

marvin 10y ago

The Bolt will also not be able to ship in nearly the volumes of Tesla Model 3.

greglindahl 10y ago
Wikipedia has 2 sources that report that the plan is 25k-30k cars per year (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chevrolet_Bolt https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chevrolet_Bolt). Now that Model 3 received so many reservations, I'd guess that GM is planning on raising that number.
- marvin 10y ago
  That's a good thing, but just like Tesla, they have to build lots of battery factories to do it. Or their suppliers have to. This process is underway, but unless there are massive projects happening right now that I'm not aware of, their production will be lagging Tesla's by a wide margin.