4 ms·

> I really am happier as a result of what I'm doing. I'm sincerely glad for you, but how much of your current happiness comes from the challenge that you posed

by pif 10y ago

> I really am happier as a result of what I'm doing. I'm sincerely glad for you, but how much of your current happiness comes from the challenge that you posed yourself and you won? In other terms, how much effort are you putting every day in your (fully respectable) cause? > Can everybody be as happy as me with as little as me? I'm not sure. Me neither. It looks to me as you chose to be happier via ecology. Most people have already chosen how they wish to be happier, and giving up cheap energy is just a huge roadblock for them.

RodericDay 10y ago
> Most people have already chosen how they wish to be happier, and giving up cheap energy is just a huge roadblock for them. this sounds like total resignation. how about challenging those people on their choices?
- pif 10y ago
  Are we talking about the same people who always buy the cheapest thing while complaining that jobs left abroad? Good luck with that!
mikekchar 10y ago
I think the big thing that surprised me was that I put in less effort on average. The absolutely biggest thing was getting rid of the car. A car enables you to go 100 km out of your way and cram your life full of complicated stuff. I can't do that any more, so I am much more relaxed ;-) Hanging the clothes is another interesting one. We wash the clothes every day in the morning. The washing machine uses surprisingly little energy (average load is 64 Wh according to the manual). Hanging the wash takes a couple of minutes before work. Taking them down and folding them another couple of minutes after work. If it's raining that day we dry them on a rack indoors (sometimes takes 2 days in the rainy season, but it doesn't bother me any!). This is just dramatically better than my old process of hanging around for 2 hours for my laundry to be done. Hanging the laundry keeps them from getting wrinkled. The clothes also last a lot longer. Again, I was amazed at how much better it really was. Even when I was washing clothes by hand, I could do both my wife's and my clothes in 10 minutes easily. Usually did it just before I took a shower. If something needed to soak, I soaked it while I was taking a shower. My wife didn't like it, though, because I'm not as delicate as the washing machine (i.e. it's a job that requires some skill) and since the washing machine is actually quite efficient, we scrapped that. Again, I could go on for a long time, but you probably don't want to be bored by all the discoveries I've made over the years. Some things require learning some skills. Some things require learning some new processes. However, I have been pleasantly surprised at how little effort is required to have a dramatic improvement in life quality at the same time as reducing energy usage. Some things are uncomfortable in my new life. Sometimes it's hot in the summer. I drink cool beer at dinner time. You have no idea how good it tastes. Sometimes it's cold in the winter. I lie in front of a sunny window like a cat in complete bliss. I eat cold noodles in the summer and hot stew in the winter. I walk for hours on end in the perfect weather of spring and fall. My life is just better. By a lot. I don't really expect to convince you in this kind of forum and I wouldn't bother replying, but you seem to be curious even if you are understandably sceptical. It's a bit easier to convince people where I live (in Japan) that what I'm doing makes sense because most of it is already part of the traditional culture. My mother in law is in her mid 80s and has never used a heater or air conditioner in her life -- she thinks they are evil. And a lot of things would have to be done completely differently in other parts of the world. I'm from Canada and you can't do without heat when it is -30 degrees C. I think the key thing is to just challenge the assumptions we make -- A car allows you to do more things, so it makes your life better. A heater makes you comfortable, so it makes your life happier. These things seem obvious, but at least in my experience they don't necessarily follow in practice. Nobody will change what they are doing now unless it is part of their culture. The culture will not change unless people see other people enjoying something new. If you want to change the culture, change what you are doing now, find a way to enjoy it, show other people. It doesn't happen over night, but it can happen more quickly than you might imagine. Just look at pedestrian city centres in Europe (would anyone agree to let cars drive on the high streets of England any more? I seriously doubt it). Look at people carrying cloth bags to grocery stores. In some places people would rather walk into a store without their pants than without their own bag. Neither of these things were remotely true when I was a child. Things change in surprising ways.
- pif 10y ago
  Thanks for your reply! I don't share some of your opinions, but I appreciate your coherence. Up-vote ;-)

by pif 10y ago

RodericDay 10y ago

> Most people have already chosen how they wish to be happier, and giving up cheap energy is just a huge roadblock for them. this sounds like total resignation. how about challenging those people on their choices?

pif 10y ago
Are we talking about the same people who always buy the cheapest thing while complaining that jobs left abroad? Good luck with that!

mikekchar 10y ago

I think the big thing that surprised me was that I put in less effort on average. The absolutely biggest thing was getting rid of the car. A car enables you to go 100 km out of your way and cram your life full of complicated stuff. I can't do that any more, so I am much more relaxed ;-) Hanging the clothes is another interesting one. We wash the clothes every day in the morning. The washing machine uses surprisingly little energy (average load is 64 Wh according to the manual). Hanging the wash takes a couple of minutes before work. Taking them down and folding them another couple of minutes after work. If it's raining that day we dry them on a rack indoors (sometimes takes 2 days in the rainy season, but it doesn't bother me any!). This is just dramatically better than my old process of hanging around for 2 hours for my laundry to be done. Hanging the laundry keeps them from getting wrinkled. The clothes also last a lot longer. Again, I was amazed at how much better it really was. Even when I was washing clothes by hand, I could do both my wife's and my clothes in 10 minutes easily. Usually did it just before I took a shower. If something needed to soak, I soaked it while I was taking a shower. My wife didn't like it, though, because I'm not as delicate as the washing machine (i.e. it's a job that requires some skill) and since the washing machine is actually quite efficient, we scrapped that. Again, I could go on for a long time, but you probably don't want to be bored by all the discoveries I've made over the years. Some things require learning some skills. Some things require learning some new processes. However, I have been pleasantly surprised at how little effort is required to have a dramatic improvement in life quality at the same time as reducing energy usage. Some things are uncomfortable in my new life. Sometimes it's hot in the summer. I drink cool beer at dinner time. You have no idea how good it tastes. Sometimes it's cold in the winter. I lie in front of a sunny window like a cat in complete bliss. I eat cold noodles in the summer and hot stew in the winter. I walk for hours on end in the perfect weather of spring and fall. My life is just better. By a lot. I don't really expect to convince you in this kind of forum and I wouldn't bother replying, but you seem to be curious even if you are understandably sceptical. It's a bit easier to convince people where I live (in Japan) that what I'm doing makes sense because most of it is already part of the traditional culture. My mother in law is in her mid 80s and has never used a heater or air conditioner in her life -- she thinks they are evil. And a lot of things would have to be done completely differently in other parts of the world. I'm from Canada and you can't do without heat when it is -30 degrees C. I think the key thing is to just challenge the assumptions we make -- A car allows you to do more things, so it makes your life better. A heater makes you comfortable, so it makes your life happier. These things seem obvious, but at least in my experience they don't necessarily follow in practice. Nobody will change what they are doing now unless it is part of their culture. The culture will not change unless people see other people enjoying something new. If you want to change the culture, change what you are doing now, find a way to enjoy it, show other people. It doesn't happen over night, but it can happen more quickly than you might imagine. Just look at pedestrian city centres in Europe (would anyone agree to let cars drive on the high streets of England any more? I seriously doubt it). Look at people carrying cloth bags to grocery stores. In some places people would rather walk into a store without their pants than without their own bag. Neither of these things were remotely true when I was a child. Things change in surprising ways.

pif 10y ago
Thanks for your reply! I don't share some of your opinions, but I appreciate your coherence. Up-vote ;-)