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> This looks like a good clone of Air, and I haven't seen Acer/Lenovo/Dell manage to do that yet. Clearly it's not a cheap product, but the Lenovo Thinkpad Car

> This looks like a good clone of Air, and I haven't seen Acer/Lenovo/Dell manage to do that yet. Clearly it's not a cheap product, but the Lenovo Thinkpad Carbon X1 is razor thin, high powered, well built, and very good looking. Maybe I'm missing something?

Trundle 10y ago
An Air clone to me would have a metal body as that's a pretty defining characteristic.
- vacri 10y ago
  Carbon Fibre isn't a good enough 'tech wank' material?
  - Trundle 10y ago
    Could even be better. I didn't say anything about the value of the laptop, just whether or not I consider it a macbook air clone.
- josteink 10y ago
  For me the important aspect of an "Air laptop" would be that it is lightweight. And Carbon Fibre is certainly more lightweight than aluminium, and may be stronger as well. As such, the Carbon X1 certainly qualifies.
scotu 10y ago
I cannot trust Lenovo being competent at what they do after superfish, I wonder how can any of the readers of hacker news still think of buying from them... (this doesn't mean that competitors are competent or anything, but being caught like they were undermines my basic trust threshold)
- MichaelGG 10y ago
  Unfortunately, nothing comes close to ThinkPads. I dislike Lenovo a lot and would ditch them at first chance. No vendor wants to be that chance though. (Proper keyboard, 3-physical-button pad/point, not too hot, etc.) I'm not too concerned about Superfish - that was only the consumer junk, right? The BIOS-Windows-auto-install stuff was more concerning. But hey, little choices. Lenovo is certainly incompetent - look at the X240/T440 with the terrible pad design they backtracked on (obvious). Or the Carbon keyboards they ended up ditching.
  - smhg 10y ago
    Don't forget the Ctrl - Fn key swap. On some Lenovo models they are the same size (and can be swapped), but not on the Carbon X1.
    - FT_intern 10y ago
      I assume this was implemented to improve usability for people with short fingers. As someone with tiny fingers, I would rather have a huge Ctrl key and a tiny fn key
  - dorfsmay 10y ago
    I'm in the same boat. Additionally there is a huge immunity of people running Linux on the thinkpads which make it easier to pick the right components when buying, and sovle and find work around when you do hit a problem.
    - JBiserkov 10y ago
      I know this is probably auto-correct, but find it hilarious that you misspelled 'community' as 'immunity' :-)
  - turnip1979 10y ago
    What thinkpad would u get today? I looked into the T460 but (a) they seem to have many variants within the same model and (b) I saw too many negative reviews online.
- fapjacks 10y ago
  That's easy: Who cares what Lenovo installs on their hardware? Whatever is on there is coming off as soon as I get it. And their hardware is excellent for the price.
  - zaroth 10y ago
    I think the thing with Lenovo is, their hardware is sometimes excellent for the price. It's like they are Intel with a tick-tock cadence except the ticks are all complete duds. Just make sure to wait for a new model to accumulate at least 6 months of solid reviews before pulling the trigger. I've been getting ThinkPads on corporate refresh cycles for 15 years and after they sold to Lenovo, I never know if a new machine will turn out to be a flaky piece of junk or totally solid and well built. Seems like it's always one or the other.
    - fapjacks 10y ago
      Yeah, you are totally right.
  - paulmd 10y ago
    You can't necessarily remove it. For example, there's a mechanism called the Windows Binary Platform Table that automatically copies an EXE from the UEFI image and executes it with kernel-level privileges on each boot. It's intended to be used to deliver drivers or anti-theft software after a clean install, but Lenovo was using it to deliver malware, and there's nothing you can do about it unless you have a signed image without the malware included. http://thenextweb.com/insider/2015/08/12/lenovo-used-a-hidden-windows-feature-to-ensure-its-software-could-not-be-deleted/ http://thenextweb.com/insider/2015/08/12/lenovo-used-a-hidde...
    - josteink 10y ago
      But the second this news broke, Lenovo backed our immediately and issued a firmware update removing the bloatware. At least this issue should be solved.
- josteink 10y ago
  > I cannot trust Lenovo being competent at what they do after superfish, I wonder how can any of the readers of hacker news still think of buying from them. It was certainly a giant blunder, but like all of these issues they are Windows only, and usually only if you use the factory OS image. Like most(?) of the HN crowd not using Apple products, I run Linux, so that kind of stuff doesn't affect me at all. I assume the remaining ones reinstall using their own installation-media too? It doesn't excuse Lenovo's behaviour and certainly can make you question their judgement, but all in all, I'm one of those who are putting less weight on this issue than others may do. What matters most to me, are the practical aspects: what can this product do for me? And Carbon X1 Thinkpads are among the best lightweight laptops out there.
  - beagle3 10y ago
    No, it's not only if you use the factory OS image: http://www.theregister.co.uk/2015/08/12/lenovo_firmware_nasty/ http://www.theregister.co.uk/2015/08/12/lenovo_firmware_nast... - it is, indeed, only if you use Windows for now. But there was a time where pressing the "restore" key on the IdeaPad (yes, there was one, that starts a windows restore) would bork a Linux install. ThinkPad hardware is OK, but it's very hard to trust Lenovo with anything these days. A good summary I found while looking for the above link is http://www.makeuseof.com/tag/now-three-pre-installed-malwares-lenovo-laptops/ http://www.makeuseof.com/tag/now-three-pre-installed-malware...
  - embik 10y ago
    > It was certainly a giant blunder, but like all of these issues they are Windows only, and usually only if you use the factory OS image. Don't forget that your hardware vendor is also responsible for firmware. Not saying that Lenovo is special in any way here, but delivering terrible software on the factory OS image might have implications for software quality in general.
    - TD-Linux 10y ago
      Lenovo actually has a moderately good track record here - they have shipped firmware updates that fixed Linux-only issues.
- ekianjo 10y ago
  > I cannot trust Lenovo being competent at what they do after superfish That was not on the business line. I.e. it did not impact thinkpads, which is what people usually buy on HN anyway.
  - freehunter 10y ago
    It still speaks to the leadership culture at the organization. At some point, someone okayed Superfish. That's not alright.
balladeer 10y ago
You may be missing its price - $1142.10[1]. [1] http://shop.lenovo.com/us/en/laptops/thinkpad/x-series/x1-carbon/ http://shop.lenovo.com/us/en/laptops/thinkpad/x-series/x1-ca...
- smcl 10y ago
  They stated "Clearly it's not a cheap product"
  - josteink 10y ago
    The Carbon X1 is probably positioned as a competitor to some non-existent Macbook Air/Pro hybrid, and it does have a pricing thereafter. It will certainly have to be more expensive than a plain Air, with its weak CPU and otherwise lackluster specs. That said, I still find complaints about the X1's price from an Apple-user funny. Whenever people in the past people was critical towards the pricing of Apple products, the response was always "Real quality costs money" and "It's worth it". Is that no longer so? And is a quality higher than that provided by Apple unimaginable?
RealGeek 10y ago
I have tried a bunch of Macbook Air competitors, but none of them have a trackpad as good as MacBook.
- nakedrobot2 10y ago
  I have bought/used a lot of high end ($2000+) windows notebooks: acer, asus, MSI. The trackpads all suck. Seriously, it is insane - macs had a working mouse in 1984!
  - blahi 10y ago
    You bought all the junk. Thinkpads and expensive Dells and HPs are good. So is the surface book. The brands you listed are good at making low quality laptops. Their high end sucks. Lenovo's high end is top-notch and their low end is not as good as Acer's for example.
    - freehunter 10y ago
      Didn't he say he bought high-end $2000+ machines? Then you come in saying he bought junk and should be buying high-end... something doesn't add up.
      - detaro 10y ago
        the comment you replied to said that the specific brands mentioned have bad high-end offerings, so if they want to buy high-end and get their money worth they should look elsewhere.
RealGeek 10y ago
I have tried a bunch of Macbook Air competitors, but none of them have a trackpad as good as MacBook.
logic 10y ago
In a life long ago, I was responsible for an office full of Thinkpads, not long after Lenovo spun off from IBM. These were machines that "just worked", and if there was a problem, their on-site service was legendary. I never had to worry about them. I now own a 3rd-gen X1 Carbon for personal use. After my experience with it, I'll never buy or recommend Lenovo again. Months of waiting on backordered parts (for their flagship laptop), repeat visits from their service center, and the end result is finally a laptop that mostly works, but is starting a slow death very early because of cheap plastic construction and tight tolerances that aren't so tight after a few months of use. I've had it a year and a half (I bought it the week it came out); I'll be lucky if it makes it to two years without another significant problem. Terrible experience all the way around. It looks pretty on the website, but it's not built to last like their older products were, and their service is a shadow of its former self.

Trundle 10y ago

An Air clone to me would have a metal body as that's a pretty defining characteristic.

vacri 10y ago
Carbon Fibre isn't a good enough 'tech wank' material?
- Trundle 10y ago
  Could even be better. I didn't say anything about the value of the laptop, just whether or not I consider it a macbook air clone.
josteink 10y ago
For me the important aspect of an "Air laptop" would be that it is lightweight. And Carbon Fibre is certainly more lightweight than aluminium, and may be stronger as well. As such, the Carbon X1 certainly qualifies.

scotu 10y ago

I cannot trust Lenovo being competent at what they do after superfish, I wonder how can any of the readers of hacker news still think of buying from them... (this doesn't mean that competitors are competent or anything, but being caught like they were undermines my basic trust threshold)

MichaelGG 10y ago
Unfortunately, nothing comes close to ThinkPads. I dislike Lenovo a lot and would ditch them at first chance. No vendor wants to be that chance though. (Proper keyboard, 3-physical-button pad/point, not too hot, etc.) I'm not too concerned about Superfish - that was only the consumer junk, right? The BIOS-Windows-auto-install stuff was more concerning. But hey, little choices. Lenovo is certainly incompetent - look at the X240/T440 with the terrible pad design they backtracked on (obvious). Or the Carbon keyboards they ended up ditching.
- smhg 10y ago
  Don't forget the Ctrl - Fn key swap. On some Lenovo models they are the same size (and can be swapped), but not on the Carbon X1.
  - FT_intern 10y ago
    I assume this was implemented to improve usability for people with short fingers. As someone with tiny fingers, I would rather have a huge Ctrl key and a tiny fn key
- dorfsmay 10y ago
  I'm in the same boat. Additionally there is a huge immunity of people running Linux on the thinkpads which make it easier to pick the right components when buying, and sovle and find work around when you do hit a problem.
  - JBiserkov 10y ago
    I know this is probably auto-correct, but find it hilarious that you misspelled 'community' as 'immunity' :-)
- turnip1979 10y ago
  What thinkpad would u get today? I looked into the T460 but (a) they seem to have many variants within the same model and (b) I saw too many negative reviews online.
fapjacks 10y ago
That's easy: Who cares what Lenovo installs on their hardware? Whatever is on there is coming off as soon as I get it. And their hardware is excellent for the price.
- zaroth 10y ago
  I think the thing with Lenovo is, their hardware is sometimes excellent for the price. It's like they are Intel with a tick-tock cadence except the ticks are all complete duds. Just make sure to wait for a new model to accumulate at least 6 months of solid reviews before pulling the trigger. I've been getting ThinkPads on corporate refresh cycles for 15 years and after they sold to Lenovo, I never know if a new machine will turn out to be a flaky piece of junk or totally solid and well built. Seems like it's always one or the other.
  - fapjacks 10y ago
    Yeah, you are totally right.
- paulmd 10y ago
  You can't necessarily remove it. For example, there's a mechanism called the Windows Binary Platform Table that automatically copies an EXE from the UEFI image and executes it with kernel-level privileges on each boot. It's intended to be used to deliver drivers or anti-theft software after a clean install, but Lenovo was using it to deliver malware, and there's nothing you can do about it unless you have a signed image without the malware included. http://thenextweb.com/insider/2015/08/12/lenovo-used-a-hidden-windows-feature-to-ensure-its-software-could-not-be-deleted/ http://thenextweb.com/insider/2015/08/12/lenovo-used-a-hidde...
  - josteink 10y ago
    But the second this news broke, Lenovo backed our immediately and issued a firmware update removing the bloatware. At least this issue should be solved.
josteink 10y ago
> I cannot trust Lenovo being competent at what they do after superfish, I wonder how can any of the readers of hacker news still think of buying from them. It was certainly a giant blunder, but like all of these issues they are Windows only, and usually only if you use the factory OS image. Like most(?) of the HN crowd not using Apple products, I run Linux, so that kind of stuff doesn't affect me at all. I assume the remaining ones reinstall using their own installation-media too? It doesn't excuse Lenovo's behaviour and certainly can make you question their judgement, but all in all, I'm one of those who are putting less weight on this issue than others may do. What matters most to me, are the practical aspects: what can this product do for me? And Carbon X1 Thinkpads are among the best lightweight laptops out there.
- beagle3 10y ago
  No, it's not only if you use the factory OS image: http://www.theregister.co.uk/2015/08/12/lenovo_firmware_nasty/ http://www.theregister.co.uk/2015/08/12/lenovo_firmware_nast... - it is, indeed, only if you use Windows for now. But there was a time where pressing the "restore" key on the IdeaPad (yes, there was one, that starts a windows restore) would bork a Linux install. ThinkPad hardware is OK, but it's very hard to trust Lenovo with anything these days. A good summary I found while looking for the above link is http://www.makeuseof.com/tag/now-three-pre-installed-malwares-lenovo-laptops/ http://www.makeuseof.com/tag/now-three-pre-installed-malware...
- embik 10y ago
  > It was certainly a giant blunder, but like all of these issues they are Windows only, and usually only if you use the factory OS image. Don't forget that your hardware vendor is also responsible for firmware. Not saying that Lenovo is special in any way here, but delivering terrible software on the factory OS image might have implications for software quality in general.
  - TD-Linux 10y ago
    Lenovo actually has a moderately good track record here - they have shipped firmware updates that fixed Linux-only issues.
ekianjo 10y ago
> I cannot trust Lenovo being competent at what they do after superfish That was not on the business line. I.e. it did not impact thinkpads, which is what people usually buy on HN anyway.
- freehunter 10y ago
  It still speaks to the leadership culture at the organization. At some point, someone okayed Superfish. That's not alright.

balladeer 10y ago

You may be missing its price - $1142.10[1]. [1] http://shop.lenovo.com/us/en/laptops/thinkpad/x-series/x1-carbon/ http://shop.lenovo.com/us/en/laptops/thinkpad/x-series/x1-ca...

smcl 10y ago
They stated "Clearly it's not a cheap product"
- josteink 10y ago
  The Carbon X1 is probably positioned as a competitor to some non-existent Macbook Air/Pro hybrid, and it does have a pricing thereafter. It will certainly have to be more expensive than a plain Air, with its weak CPU and otherwise lackluster specs. That said, I still find complaints about the X1's price from an Apple-user funny. Whenever people in the past people was critical towards the pricing of Apple products, the response was always "Real quality costs money" and "It's worth it". Is that no longer so? And is a quality higher than that provided by Apple unimaginable?

RealGeek 10y ago

I have tried a bunch of Macbook Air competitors, but none of them have a trackpad as good as MacBook.

nakedrobot2 10y ago
I have bought/used a lot of high end ($2000+) windows notebooks: acer, asus, MSI. The trackpads all suck. Seriously, it is insane - macs had a working mouse in 1984!
- blahi 10y ago
  You bought all the junk. Thinkpads and expensive Dells and HPs are good. So is the surface book. The brands you listed are good at making low quality laptops. Their high end sucks. Lenovo's high end is top-notch and their low end is not as good as Acer's for example.
  - freehunter 10y ago
    Didn't he say he bought high-end $2000+ machines? Then you come in saying he bought junk and should be buying high-end... something doesn't add up.
    - detaro 10y ago
      the comment you replied to said that the specific brands mentioned have bad high-end offerings, so if they want to buy high-end and get their money worth they should look elsewhere.

RealGeek 10y ago

I have tried a bunch of Macbook Air competitors, but none of them have a trackpad as good as MacBook.

logic 10y ago

In a life long ago, I was responsible for an office full of Thinkpads, not long after Lenovo spun off from IBM. These were machines that "just worked", and if there was a problem, their on-site service was legendary. I never had to worry about them. I now own a 3rd-gen X1 Carbon for personal use. After my experience with it, I'll never buy or recommend Lenovo again. Months of waiting on backordered parts (for their flagship laptop), repeat visits from their service center, and the end result is finally a laptop that mostly works, but is starting a slow death very early because of cheap plastic construction and tight tolerances that aren't so tight after a few months of use. I've had it a year and a half (I bought it the week it came out); I'll be lucky if it makes it to two years without another significant problem. Terrible experience all the way around. It looks pretty on the website, but it's not built to last like their older products were, and their service is a shadow of its former self.